Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

[BeyondNoone]

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

Trans-women may compete against each other in sport as 'women', and actual women won't be able to compete, or if they do are guaranteed a bottom of the table place. In many sports women don't get the recognition they deserve already, and so it will become an even more male dominated arena than it is now.

In terms of sport - womens sport will be dominated by transwomen in all areas except dressage, gymnastics, and shooting.
Hospitals - Religious women will not access healthcare at all. Rich women will go private. Everyone else will put up with it. The "scandal" of hospital assaults on women will be repeatedly covered on the news like elder care abuse is now; everyone will pretend to be shocked.
Prisons - rape in prison will be a joke made openly on the telly (as it is about men now). Women will be raped in prison.
Children - it's really unclear to me how this will pan out. The first wave of detransitioners are already hitting their 30s and are organising now, so not sure if we'll see class actions in 10 years. It took about 20 years for the tobacco suits to really get it together.

Lemonjello

It makes my brain hurt to think of it. I do think that women will be treated far worse than they are today. Just in general.

If you can't talk about the disadvantage that your sex affords you, that disadvantage becomes accepted.

Sport will be interesting. I'd like to see what would happen if a man identified as a woman and beat one of the Venus sisters in the final at Wimbledon.

I honestly can't see the public, (or the venus sisters), accepting that. But how many girls and women would already have been displaced because they are competing against men?

There will be regular stories in the press about 'women' attacking other women. Rape and sexual assault will be recorded as being committed by far more females than ever before. And although a lot of people will know that they are men, if it is never reported as such, there will just be an assumption that female crime is on the up, particularly sexually violent crime.

And pointing these things out will be deleted in below the line comments, online, everywhere, because it will be considered a hate crime.

If enough people are legally recorded as women, who are actually men, health statistics will change. The incidences of female health problems will go down and the funding will be cut.

In fact, statistics generally will be skewed. To women's disadvantage.

Giving men the legal status of women, based on gender identity, means that sex based protections no longer exist.

You will not be able to sue for sex discrimination on the basis of the fact that you are a woman.

Say your company has a diversity quota. Six men and six women on the board. That could be six men and six transwomen. And their diversity quota will be filled.

A woman in Canada sued her company for not allowing her to breastfeed at work. She lost. Although the main crux of her defence was unfair dismissal not sex discrimination, the court said:

"The trial court also held, nonsensically, that even if Angela had been fired because she was breastfeeding that was not sex discrimination, in part because men can lactate under certain circumstances.”

m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6653418

The law, is the law. It does not have to recognise common sense. If it says a man is a woman, or vice versa, then that is the case. And you can implement the law purely on that basis.

I hate the way that we have to go "this could happen, e.g. a man beating Serena Williams" to get people to pay attention and to make them listen to the problem. It's totally necessary and makes sense but I can see people reframing feminists as being like the people who said about gay marriage "what next, will I be able to marry my dog?" Like "oh, aren't they crazy? Let's laugh at their bigotedness and paranoia".

In the US:

The Thurston County Democrats have to, by law, have a chair and vice-chair of the opposite sex. They have fulfilled this criteria by having a man and a transwoman.

www.wethegoverned.com/trans-radical-witch-of-olympia-leads-democratic-party-just-awesome/

As I have said elsewhere, I think we should be collecting screenshots of the actual, implied and threatened violence of the TRA's in respect to last week's attack, it's lead up and aftermath and that we should send this to a range of people and groups MPs, women's organisations and potential trans funding bodies.

YesVeryGoodVeryStrong

I know. I agree it shouldn't have to happen on that scale for people suddenly think oh wait a minute.

Because it is already happening where men are beating women. All over the world.

Andrea Yarwood, in America, didn't need any hormones, surgery counselling or anything. Just identified as a woman, and took took two collegiate state titles.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/?s=Women%27s+sport&submit=Search

@YetAnotherSpartacus

There are about 100 examples here (click on the 81 more replies link to open the thread): mobile.twitter.com/daemonologies/status/908338002052763648

Though obviously still just a snapshot from a couple of days.

Zoloh - it's like a pustle has burst isn't it, and all this repressed hatred for women and desire to be violent towards us has found an outlet (that they think is justified). I find it very disturbing.

OK I have just been talking about all of this with my husband and he wants to come to one of these events to protect the women there. He says he would be willing to even just stand infront of us all as a kind of human shield but obviously if he was attacked of someone got past him and hit a woman he would kick their arse. He is 6 foot 3 and fairly well built so I think even his presence may deter the mysoginistic blokes. Would this help or make things worse? On the one hand more protection would obviously help, on the other hand I find it shocking that women NEED males to protect them but obviously biology says men tend to be stronger than women. I also think that IF something did happen and my husband jumped in, it would be fuel for the TAs...kind if 'this transphobe beat up a transwoman, look!! this is what we deal with' kind of thing :S

Now he says he is not concerned about being 'outed' as a 'transphobe' and if interviewed he could get his view (that males are not females, though he does think that someone who goes through the whole operations and shit shouldn't be called a 'man' as they are clearly serious, though he does think generally its a mental illness and should be treated as such) across perfectly well...but would this kind of thing help our cause?

He also says once more normal blokes hear about this, they will offer to help as he says decent blokes hate the thought of men beating on women, which is basically what this is.

I do want to know if there are any meetings planned for the north east that I could go to, with or without my husband. London is a bit far away for me.

Re education. I want to know why schools have transgender policies that appear to be outweighing best practice in pastoral care and safeguarding practice.

Teenagers with anorexia, who self harm are seen as vulnerable and with mental health issues
Emotional abuse by parents / carers, Munchausen's syndrome /by proxy / fabricated illness - safeguarding referrals made and intervention provided.
Children being groomed online by inappropriate adults (paedophiles or extremists) - refer to Social Services or Prevent.

But children of ALL ages where either a parent or the child states that they are transgender are accepted uncritically. Schools stand by
while teenagers bind their breasts and start taking puberty blockers. Primary children are given age inappropriate advice as to how it is possible to change sex and NOBODY wonders whether this is ethical? Or safe?

It's so unbelievably frustrating that they seem to believe it's feminists driving trans people to suicide and not the patriarchy.
Without feminism no one would be able to present outside their gender stereotypes ever.

Radical feminists have fought longer and harder than anyone else for the right for people to present themselves however they like and to break from the prison of the patriarchy.

He also says if his daughters school ever let the lads change with the girls based on feelings, he will be pulling her out as he disagrees with it completely and says its fair enough if a vguy doesnt want to change with the other guys, but in that case, the guy should change in the loos or something, NOT with the teen girls. So possibly he will be on the news soon anyway as its only a matter of time before this happens again.

As it did happen at one stage, but was reversed. Long story short, the school let a guy who had been accused of sexually assaulting girls at school in the past, use the female facilities. After a huge uproar from parents this was changed...and soon after the boy was expelled for his behaviour towards the girls. But yeah, the school has form for it so it will probably happen again at some stage :/

And pointing these things out will be deleted in below the line comments, online, everywhere, because it will be considered a hate crime.

We are already seeing a lot of this, and the right to be forgotten thing will also add to the censoring that's going on. It's got distopian future written all over it.

What was the quote from the school in the news recently about the repercussions for not believing someone was in fact the opposite sex?

It was roughly that transphobia included not believing someone trans was a real male/female

It's so unbelievably frustrating that they seem to believe it's feminists driving trans people to suicide and not the patriarchy.

But the patriarchy's so outmoded these days. Radical feminists are the ones with all the real power in society, after all. Everyone loves us!

@HornyTortoise

It would be beyond awful if your husband got into a tussle with a trans woman I don't think that would do the cause any favours at all and I think if he's that passionate about it he should probably stay away.

I do think that once it comes out into the public forum what is actually going on we'll find that most straight men feel the same.
The look on my husbands face when I said a trans woman was female and as a straight man he should fancy them was priceless, he was genuinely angry at the prospect.

I know I keep saying this but I also think about the way my husband (and previous partners) is with his willy, wangling it about like it's the best thing since sliced bread, brandishing it like a sword and whipping it from side to side when he comes out the shower and I genuinely can't see him ever accepting it as anything other than the source of maleness.
Men won't give a up their dicks, full stop.

Horny
If you have a look at the GIRE's website: www.gires.org.uk/information-for-educators/

They provide sophisticated information, model policy documents and training for schools.
They are explicit that toilet / changing facilities for a transgender child should 'be immediately available in line with new gender presentation, and the young person’s wishes'
They also present the usual dubious suicide statistics as fact and state that puberty blockers should be given to children as puberty starts (so that's 10 year olds then, given how many girls now start their periods in primary schools) and highlight the 'damage' that can be done in delaying. These are the resources that schools turn to for their information and they are full of an 'activists' view of transgender issues threaded throughout their materials. And this is one reason why these changes are happening so swiftly - activists have been allowed to present biased opinion and wishes as 'facts' and to define transphobia. In the face of this, professionals who understand child development and children become de skilled and just accept this rubbish as fact. These self appointed experts are telling you that puberty blockers do no harm and if the child changes their mind then they stop taking them and puberty simply re starts.
It is a developing scandal of overwhelming proportions when you stand back and see what is happening.

It is a developing scandal of overwhelming proportions when you stand back and see what is happening.

They know full well what is going on from teachers to politicians, they care more about keeping their income coming in than children.

There is some awareness but I'm not convinced that teachers, politicians, etc have joined up the dots and really understand the consequences of what they're pushing through.

I think they're worried they're going to be left behind and thus find themselves on the wrong side of history like the bigots who were homophobic and encourage persecutions, and this fear is rushing them along without properly thinking about the destination.

In my view it's more unforgivable negligence.

If a standard letter was sent to every school and MP, setting out the issue, they couldn't all claim ignorance anymore! There is no actual group named TERF to do this though.

It would be beyond awful if your husband got into a tussle with a trans woman I don't think that would do the cause any favours at all and I think if he's that passionate about it he should probably stay away.

Yeah probably. He did say that if anything came of it, he could simply say HE was a self identified transwoman

He has shared Magdalen Burns video about this on facebook. Absolute silence so far. But we are expecting a comment from at least one person...as he had this argument out in person a few weeks back, and even tually, running out of options, the person arguing for the TA version of stuff...went home in fucking tears. It really was a sight to behold...I mean my husband wasn't aggressive or anything throughout the conversation (between close friends, not random strangers). The guy seemed to be getting it at one point when it got into the whole 'lesbians are transphobic for refusing dick' as the person he was arguing with is actually a gay bloke...but it turned back around when this guy basically said that was all bollocks and its easy to just say no...and its in no way transphobic to prefer one sex. To which my husband pointed out that having the view that its entirely fine to be attracted to one SEX is actually transphobic...which was when the guy started crying, shouting transphobia...and eventually stormed out.

A lot of work to be done tbh

I agree with nauticant - teachers (and maybe even social workers) haven't joined up the dots. I believe that the fear of being seen as transphobic is so massive that they suspend their critical thinking and just haven't realised. I bet that GIREs or whoever does their transphobia training turn up and lay down the ground rules ' no transphobic comments, no misgendering, dead naming etc' and this group of adults who are normally bloody challenging when being trained are so out of their comfort zones and so anxious to be seen as accepting and kind that they just accept the psycho babble rather than challenging the propaganda and untruths.
As we know, finding out the real statistics about suicide is bloody difficult so in a training session, who really knows that the statistics used are misleading?

Some sort of concerted organisation is definitely needed. A letter clearly laying out some facts to contradict the current dangerous be a good place to start but it would take very careful wording to get right .