Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

[BeyondNoone]

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

^Agree totally sandwiches. It bothers me that many of the radical activist crowd are arguing that children should be given drugs if they identify as trans (no matter what parents advise and without having to see mental health professionals) and that child protection should protect trans children from parents if the child identifies as trans and the parents call for sanity.

I've just seen this fantastic video on another thread. It's a must see.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3031421-Really-important-video-on-detrasitioned-child

We don't allow children to drive, have tattoos/piercings, buy alcohol or tobacco etc because we need to protect them from making immature and perhaps dangerous choices. I strongly believe in children's rights and children's rights to have their voices heard. I've been a children's advocate in the family courts for years and feel passionately about their voices and choices. But the current situation re trans children terrifies me. THEY ARE CHILDREN FFS!

And I'm going to add (probably get flamed) that for some parents having a transgender child seem to be a bloody fashion statement rather than a genuine support for their children's welfare. Let them live how they like and make the huge decision about whether or not to transition when they have the maturity to make that decision.

And in some cases it's homophobia: look at all the posts in AIBU about whether a little boy should wear tights, or a dress? The underlying fear is that he's gay. And the abuse meted out to lesbians is worse & all the more so because lesbians are historically so invisible - there's no "comfortable" camp persona for them to inhabit like gay men

such drastic medical intervention and treatment (surgery/powerful drugs) that transitioning requires, should be respected and supported because "it's what the child wants"
I asked about sterilisation a few times until my early 30s and was refused.

It's truly astounding how society can on one hand withhold sterilisation from a competent adult, while promoting it for young children.

It's truly astounding how society can on one hand withhold sterilisation from a competent adult, while promoting it for young children

DH and I can't be the only ones told to go away & think about it til DS2 was at least 18 months by our GP when we made an appointment about DH getting a vasectomy because we'd completed our family. Two grown adults, of sound mind and with kids already 'banked'.

That video is crazy, I can't have been the only one shouting at the screen.

He feels bad because he doesn't feel he can be who he is. Show him fabulous men who wear dresses, take him to cities where gay men walk around in the streets holding hands, buy him tickets to drag shows and tell him again and again that he's free to be whoever he is and whoever he is is perfect and loved just the way he was born.

And in my late 40's with horrendous peri-imenopausal symptoms my GP refused to give me HRT. I had to wait until I was 2 years post periods to fit the criteria for officially in menopause! Totally ridiculous!

Sparticus. thats horrific that she had to go through that.

There is no way a trans woman can understand or relate to the fear of getting pregnant when you dont want to be.

In the past ive been on the Pill Norplant Depo and Mini Pill I felt the least secure on the Mini Pill. I still ended up running a pregnancy test when i was on that just in case.

Why dont the medical proffession listen to women

My young niece was sympathetic to the trans activists She went to Pride last year.

She then identified as non binary and bisexual. She didnt go to Pride this year. She told me that bi people wernt going to be made to feel welcome.

She now identifies as a lesbian.

I dont know how she feels about the trans activists now or if she knows about what happened last week. She spends a lot of time on Twitter so its likely she knows.

She did seem very confused for a while a few years back.

Shes 22.

@HelenaDove your poor niece she must be so confused!

My best friend who's a drag queen hit peak trans when he clashed with trans activists trying to ban drag queens from Pride. Apparently they are making fun of trans people

The mindset isn't about equality, it's about special privilege, domination and exemption for rules. So TRAs would argue that it is good and right that women not be allowed safe spaces or women only sports or women only discussion, trans women must rightly be centred and dominate and all should revolve around them because this redresses the disadvantage conferred on them.

Actually it satisfies the need to be more powerful and increasingly to punish women for being women. The narrative and strategies are ones used by abusive men.

Non consensual intimacy btw is a very good way to put it in that article. I keep thinking about being in a communal shower or changing room with the thugs that attacked Maria and threatened and intimidated one of their own female followers for daring to speak out of turn. Who would want to be the one who caught their eye or was misinterpreted as in any way slighting them, especially when they feel powerful and supported by law to dominate that space? I certainly would not want to make myself vulnerable by undressing anywhere near them.

"It's truly astounding how society can on one hand withhold sterilisation from a competent adult, while promoting it for young children"

EXACTLY.

Agree MissHavisham; the sort of angry TRAs who we are seeing at the moment strike me as the type of people who would very easily misconstrue even entirely innocent glances; you know the type, the angry gits who shout "what you looking at" if you've had the misfortune to glance their way when you're actually looking for the bus!

Going back a bit in the thread to the stuff on the cotton ceiling, I think one of the reasons the transactivists bang on so much about this (aside from the obvious old-as-time misogynistic trope of "all lesbians need is a good bit of dick to sort them out") is that they know it's one of the points (along with the transing of children) where ordinary people go "what the fuck?"

Because you don't need elaborate theorising about class analysis or gender as a social construct to see how bat shit it is. All you need is the recognition that for almost all human beings a sexual relationship with some one involves being drawn to both their personality and their body - their biologically sexed body. The majority of us have a sexual preference which involves wanting sexual contact with either penises or vulvas/vaginas but not both. And our reaction on being told we ought to like the other set of genitals in order to demonstrate our open-mindedness - well, that reaction goes well beyond a quiet intellectual demurral and straight into a visceral "fuck, no!"

(NB I'd be interesting to know what bisexual people feel - I can quite imagine someone who was bi saying "well, I like penises, but not in a frock thank you very much." Because personality matters too, and also the way your particular culture constructs and maintains beliefs about sexual attractiveness and behaviours/clothing.)

Yet overweight people have to accept that people might not be attracted to them.

Why cant these trans activists accept that women who are lesbians do not want to sleep with them Because it is not their sexual orientation.

I can just imagine the trans activists objecting if an 18 stone woman accused them of prejudice if they didnt want to sleep with her because of her weight.

Yet they want to deny lesbians their sexual preference.

There is a definite need to focus on those points that make people go WTF.

I'd also be curious as to how bisexual people feel actually. I can't help feeling that the angrier end of the TRA would be quite difficult to be attracted to because raging narcissism isn't exactly a turn on.

Prickly: "well, I like penises, but not in a frock thank you very much"

That
Personally I prefer more towards androgynous in both

Helena: as with everything else in transactivism, it's completely illogical. After all, if transwomen want to sleep with women, then there are far more heterosexual women out there than lesbians. You're more likely to have success with a heterosexual woman - given that you are biologically male - than you are with a lesbian. So what's the problem? Could it be simply be an old-fashioned male hatred of women who refuse to sleep with men?

"comfortable" camp persona for them to inhabit like gay men" I'm told that camp gay men are not very welcome amongst gay men and that is one reason why homosexual transsexual so.rn, that is women born gay boys who transitioned as young adults find being trans women is better for them. They, and other gay men. are not attracted to camp men. So I am told.

I really cannot understand how the cotton ceiling exists (obviously I don't doubt it does). But really how are women still being pressurised into sex with anyone? It feels like we are going backwards so fast!

How do TRA respond to suggestions of sleeping with other trans women? After all, if they identify as lesbian then they shouldn't refuse another transwomen for being trans right?

I shared last week's article on Facebook but I did not have a single response. I think some people are still scared to say anything.

Hatred plus need for validation I think Hackmum. A heterosexual wouldn't validate their female identity.

You're more likely to have success with a heterosexual woman - given that you are biologically male - than you are with a lesbian.

I'm not so sure:

"Would you like to sleep with me?", "No."

"You've got to sleep with me because if you don't you're a transphobe.", "Oh..."

How do TRA respond to suggestions of sleeping with other trans women?

Often very badly. Apparently being a lesbian with a female penis means the sight of another penis, whether male or female, is triggering.

But inserting your 'female penis' in to an actual female vagina wouldn't be remotely triggering. Righty-ho.

Often very badly. Apparently being a lesbian with a female penis means the sight of another penis, whether male or female, is triggering.

Yet if a lesbian said that, she would be called bigoted. They'll make up any shit and isn't the sight of another penis as being triggering just a reminder that they are in fact heterosexual?