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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pink News - you can't deadname a rapist

226 replies

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 08/09/2017 19:00

www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/09/08/the-mail-just-implied-a-transgender-rapist-made-unwanted-sexual-advances-because-she-has-a-penis/

They have finally lost the plot. It's utterly shameful

OP posts:
McTufty · 08/09/2017 19:02

Yeah, I saw that on Twitter and got into a rage about it Angry.

Singularly missing from the consideration is the interests of women and rape victims.

WickedLazy · 08/09/2017 19:03

Why can the rest of the civilised world, not see these wolves in sheeps' clothing for what they are Sad

WickedLazy · 08/09/2017 19:05

I mean apart from mumsnet users. The only really sensible discussions I've seen have been here.

enoughisenough12 · 08/09/2017 19:11

The headline about the Mail's coverage includes the words "Predictably horrifying". Funnily enough I have a different moral code - one that views rape as "horrifying".

Gingernaut · 08/09/2017 19:15

It's the shock horror, we-must-educate-them tone of the article that astounds me.

The idea of a violent male offender, declaring himself female, so he can lay hands on more victims, just hasn't occurred to these idiots, has it?

QueenoftheAndals · 08/09/2017 19:26

According to the author of the article "she" committed the rape while "in a male body". Now I don't know about you, but having a penis is pretty evident that "she" still is in said male body!

QuentinSummers · 08/09/2017 19:33

Copying my post from another thread, cos I am lazy

So much wrong with that article, I will just pick out this though:

The implication is then transgender people are more likely to be rapists – though the reverse is actually true.

To me that says transgender people are actually less likely to be rapists. That's what opposite means I thought.
But it appears Pink News means they are more likely to be "harassed, sexually assaulted or subject to other physical violence when they use a gendered bathroom".
As if somehow being on the receiving end of violence makes it reasonable for a transgender person to visit violence on someone else.

Similarly they say Again, having a penis isn’t what makes people attempt sexual assault.
Er yes, there is a huge correlation between owning a penis and committing sexual assault. 98% of sexual crimes are committed by people with penises.
Similarly, in the UK, where Winfield is in prison, rape requires a penis. This person could not have committed those offences if they didn't have a penis.

Fuck off, pink news

VestalVirgin · 08/09/2017 19:33

According to the author of the article "she" committed the rape while "in a male body". Now I don't know about you, but having a penis is pretty evident that "she" still is in said male body!

Perhaps "her" gender had suddenly switched to male during the full moon. You know, like a kind of, uh, wereman, and "she" woke up, covered in the victim's blood, remembering nothing at all, the poor dear.
You see, it was the male body that acted all by itself. The fact that this male body looks exactly like "her" "female" body, doesn't matter!

That must be what happened. Only, unlike a werewolf, we aren't allowed to lock "her" up during the full moon, because transphobia.

Or something.

hystericaluterus · 08/09/2017 19:53

Are you also worried about people convicted of hate crimes being put in the same prison as BAME people? If not, what makes this case so worthy of outrage?

Just to add that I am in general quite exasperated at how trans discourse has taken over (but perhaps that just my privilege speaking) feminism but I also get a bit exasperated at these implications that trans women transition in order to get closer to their 'prey'. I think an overemphasis on this line of argument really undermines the valid points that feminists might make (for instance the biological basis of the oppression of women)

BarrackerBarmer · 08/09/2017 20:06

I also get a bit exasperated at these implications that trans women transition in order to get closer to their 'prey'

However, inconveniently for you, this happens to be true:

"Testimony admitted by the British Association of Gender Identity Specialists to the Transgender Equality Inquiry in the UK Parliament took a surprise turn when members sounded the alarm over what they warned is an “ever increasing tide” of transwoman criminal sex offenders. They outline how sex-offending transwomen whom they describe as “pretend transsexuals” adopt a transgender identity for various nefarious purposes, often involving increased access to vulnerable women and child victims.

Description of the British Association of Gender Identity Specialists, from the August 20, 2015 testimony to Parliament [PDF] [all bolding in this post by me-GM]:

The Association numbers over a hundred members and comprises the overwhelming majority of all clinicians working in every Gender Identity Clinic in the British Isles. The membership is drawn from all the involved disciplines and includes Speech Therapists, Psychologists, Psychiatrists, Surgeons, Psychosexual Counsellors, Nurses, Occupational Therapists, Endocrinologists, General Practitioners and Social Workers.

Their testimony:
"The converse is the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this. These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard. I am sure that the Governor concerned would be happy to talk about this."

BarrackerBarmer · 08/09/2017 20:07

Sorry, posted without source:

gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/transgender-equality-inquiry/

Macncheesewithbacon · 08/09/2017 20:11

This is really fucking with my head. I can't agree with the fucking mail. This is like a dystopian nightmare

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 08/09/2017 20:55

Pink News hates women even more than the Mail. Congratulations, Pink News!

PricklyBall · 08/09/2017 21:05

Yeah, on balance I think I'd rather have the sidebar of shame, Countess. Being shamed over having cankles and no visible thigh gap kind of pales into insignificance compared to defending rapists.

SylviaPoe · 08/09/2017 21:13

'Are you also worried about people convicted of hate crimes being put in the same prison as BAME people? If not, what makes this case so worthy of outrage?'

There is no right to be housed in a separate prison based on ethnicity. If a particular minority ethnic group proposes such a right and gets widespread agreement, I'd not oppose it.

There was a right to not be housed in prison with people of the opposite sex.

Backingvocals · 08/09/2017 21:17

Thank god for Janice Turner in the Times. She's fighting the good fight on this one and has gone head to head with Pink News on Twitter on this. She'll get trolled no doubt but thank goodness she's putting her head above the parapet on this.

Rape is a crime by men against women. People with penises are men. They should not be in a women's prison. If you want to be transgender then go and have full surgery and have your hormones repressed so that you are as vulnerable as the women in a women's prison.

I don't know whether this person has transitioned in order to get closer to their prey. Not sure about that. I do know that they appear to be still in position of male genitalia and therefore are not female.

McTufty · 08/09/2017 21:25

It doesn't matter if she transitioned cynically in order to get close to women to prey upon them or transitioned out of a genuine identification as a woman.

Fact is, this person has a penis and uses it to prey on women and therefore should not be housed with female prisoners.

Backingvocals · 08/09/2017 21:40

Fact is, this person has a penis and uses it to prey on women and therefore should not be housed with female prisoners

And actually don't even need the middle bit:

Fact is, this person has a penis and uses it to prey on women and therefore should not be housed with female prisoners.

Being a woman is not a feeling. Being a woman is not a feeling. Being a woman is not a feeling. Repeat to fade.

hystericaluterus · 08/09/2017 21:41

My gut feeling agrees with the consensus here: a rapist with a penis should not be housed in a female prison. But why don't i feel the same about other victim/perpetrator constellations?I gave the hate crime /BAME example in order to dig deeper into my gut feeling so to say.

Thanks to Barracker for that link. I do not doubt that there is a problem of convicted criminals 'transitioning strategically' [though this was only one para in a 10 page doc, so not at the forefront of the concerns of specialists]. My exasperation comes with the tendency to lump trans sex offenders together with trans women more generally when talking about the need to protect female only spaces. Almost as if the assumption was that trans women are more likely to be sex offenders rather than saying some sex offenders under some circumstances transition. There a slippage between the two statements which makes me uncomfortable.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 08/09/2017 21:48

Hey Barracker
Missing your creativeness Grin

OP posts:
BigDeskBob · 08/09/2017 21:53

Adult human males, however they wish to be identified, are more likely to rape and sexually assault than adult human females. An adult human male who identifies as trans is still as likely to be a sex offender as any other adult human male.

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 08/09/2017 21:54

Original tweet, since deleted.

here

HumphreyCobblers · 08/09/2017 21:54

I just joined twitter to like Janice Turner's tweets. So glad someone is pointing out the obvious.

AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 08/09/2017 21:55

She's great. Follow Helen Lewis too

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HumphreyCobblers · 08/09/2017 21:56

OK. Finding it all a bit confusing but I am sure I will get there.