Should rape be considered as a hate crime?

[Shoxfordian]

I'm referring to men raping women; not negating the fact that men are also raped by men but that's not what I'm talking about.

It occurred to me that rape is about power and control over women. It comes from a deeply misogynistic view of the world and could/should be considered as a hate crime. Any thoughts?

Datun it's not an aggravating factor yet. You won't find a criminal prosecution.

Rodhullstvaerial

Ok. So currently, you can report it, it gets recorded, but nothing gets done? In one police force.

Yes and no.

If there's an actual offence they can record, investigate and charge that e.g. public order. However it wouldn't be prosecuted as a hate crime as the legislation isn't in place.

For a hate incident it would purely be recorded. Nothing would/could be done in that instance because there's no offences.

*Just to add I don't work for either of those forces, I'm just working on general policies for England and Wales

There are plenty of opportunities for consensual sex in prison. There are people who identify as gay anyway and people who identify as heterosexual on the outside but are 'gay for stay' in prison for intimacy/relationship or just for mutual sexual pleasure.

Rape in male prisons tends to be about power/control/intimidation/punishment. The same applies for womens prisons (although it happens less frequently in my experience, serious and often violent sexual assaults do occur).

Why does it need another label? It's horrendous enough as it is.

Nottingham continued with it after the trial AFAIK I've no link for it but email them and they'll confirm either way.

ANY type of hate motivation can be put forward as an aggravating factor. Wether the courts accept it is another matter. For a hate crime there is no need for proof of the 'hate' element. At court however there must be.

Rape is a serious offence and should be punished by a sentence that reflects this- The sentencing powers should be great enough without the need for extra uplift under the title of hate crime.
Also to class it as a hate crime against women, ignores the fact men and children of both sexes are raped. Do we classify this as hate crime too? Should they not be sentenced as harshly because they're not hate crimes.
To recognise something as a hate crime there needs to established motive relating to hate- such as in race hate, may include racist words etc to prove the motive. How would you establish motive in a rape case, just saying because she's a women is a total assumption.
Sexual abuse and rape, is abuse and can happen to anyone I don't think it's about hating women.

Squishee - you've summed it up in one short sentence.

Sorry just to sort of sum up what's been said here (and please correct me if I've gotten the wrong impression) but it seems to be that all male rape of females is motivated by hate and should therefore by definition be a hate crime? And that by being a hate crime would be subject to greater punitive measures? Is that correct?

So without trying to be difficult can someone explain the argument to me that establishes that all male on female rape is NECESSARILY based on hatred? Not trying to be goady, just want to understand.

Sorry just to sort of sum up what's been said here (and please correct me if I've gotten the wrong impression) but it seems to be that all male rape of females is motivated by hate and should therefore by definition be a hate crime?

Yes , that is what is being argued but if all rape of women by men is a "hate crime" then the term is meaningless- it is simply a very serious crime.

The only rapes which would not be "hate crimes" would be rape of men and boys. It is not clear to me whether posters are saying male on male rape is not a hate crime or if they can conceive there could be an element of hatred (possibly straight men raping gay men ? Or degradation ( the rape scene in the film Deliverance for example.

For those reasons I think it is a pointless argument but I would certainly support much harsher sentences and greater scrutiny before parole is granted.

Sorry
It is not clear to me whether posters are saying male on male rape cannot ever be a hate crime or if they can conceive there could be circumstances where there is an element of hatred.

Its not a hate crime as it's not a 'crime' in the first place so couldn't therefore be a 'hate crime'.

It depends on the incident surely. Some of it will be against the Public Order Act.

Yes it should be and so should street harassment

Just to clarify the post I was replying to was talking about street harassment.

I'm not happy with sex not being an allowable hate crime category when race, gender identity etc are.

Because then the CPS can put out bollocks like their schools pack terrifying young girls into staying silent when a male is present in a female space because it's a terrible hate crime to object. Yet women have no similar recourse and our needs will come last.

@Ereshkigal yes, depend on the severity it COULD be public order.

Don't understand your last post though. What did the CPS 'school pack' say?

What I described.

But I don't understand what they did wrong. Which is why I asked you to explain.

Well let's turn it on its head.

"Any criminal offence can be a hate crime if it was carried out because of hostility or prejudice based on disability, race, religion, transgender identity or sexual orientation.

When something is classed as a hate crime, the judge can impose a tougher sentence on the offender under the Criminal Justice Act 2003." ( www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/what-are-hate-incidents-and-hate-crime/ )

So the corrective rape of a lesbian could be recorded as a hate crime. Or the rape of a gay man by another man if the fact the victim was gay was a motivator. Same for rave or disability.

However being female is not a protected characteristic so rape can't be prosecuted as a hate crime against women. I think it should be if it can be proven the offender was motivated by hatred of women, for example if he used extreme misogynistic language during the offence.

We need to add femaleness to the list of protected characteristics for hate crime first though.

You mean 'sex' right? Because 'femaleness' would be missing the point of protected characteristics.

We need to add femaleness to the list of protected characteristics for hate crime first though

But to make sense of that in relation to rape you would have to have a category of rape which wasn't aggravated by hating women and a category where that was the motivation.

If a white man , straight man beats up a black gay man it does not immediately follow that it must be an aggravated crime because the victim has 2 protected characteristics.

So to quote hiddenmnetter So without trying to be difficult can someone explain the argument to me that establishes that all male on female rape is NECESSARILY based on hatred? because if that is the case calling all rape a hate crime doesn't do anything.

No I don't think we should call all rape hate crime.
I think misogynistic crime in general should be categorised as a hate crime with female sex being a characteristic. A crime would be a hate crime if it was carried out because of hostility or prejudice based on the victims female sex.
Then in the case of rape it could be prosecuted as a hate crime if hostility/prejudice towards women could be proven. Which it probably could be in many cases.
It's all semantics really until a) rape gets prosecuted better full stop and b) misogynistic crime in general becomes recognised as a hate crime

But I don't understand what they did wrong. Which is why I asked you to explain.

I think it's perfectly clear. I'm not here to "explain" things to people men. I'm here to discuss feminist issues with feminists.

I think misogynistic crime in general should be categorised as a hate crime with female sex being a characteristic.

YY.