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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Should rape be considered as a hate crime?

93 replies

Shoxfordian · 23/08/2017 18:13

I'm referring to men raping women; not negating the fact that men are also raped by men but that's not what I'm talking about.

It occurred to me that rape is about power and control over women. It comes from a deeply misogynistic view of the world and could/should be considered as a hate crime. Any thoughts?

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 25/08/2017 11:46

I agree with WhollyFather.

But if we are going to have a concept of hate crimes then it is utterly absurd that crimes of misogyny like rape don't count.

Bumdishcloths · 25/08/2017 11:48

Exactly what do you hope to achieve if it got classified as a hate crime? Hmm

Scrumplestiltskin · 25/08/2017 12:00

"Male rape only happens in prisons"
"I only happens if a woman isn't there"
Can you point out to me where anyone has said this?
As to why it should be a hate crime, I think simply out of fairness - these things are currently grounds for claims of a hate crime:
disability
race
religion
transgender identity
sexual orientation
I think in light of the things on that list, and the degree to which misogyny is motivation for violence against women in society, by men, that being female should be on that list too.

Manclife · 25/08/2017 12:02

It is on the list FFS!

Datun · 25/08/2017 12:03

Manclife

It's difficult to find any info which breaks down the statistics of male rape into a prison and non prison context.

The only information I have found suggests that prison rapes are 10 x those outside of prison. This was for the US, but it's been suggested that the percentages are similar here, despite under reporting.

Trying to find out any actual numbers about male on male rape continually takes you to prison stats.

If you have any data, I'd be glad to have a look.

Datun · 25/08/2017 12:04

It's not on that list.

Manclife · 25/08/2017 12:10

"Approximately 85,000 women and 12,000 men are raped in England and Wales alone every year; that's roughly 11 rapes (of adults alone) every hour. These figures include assaults by penetration and attempts. "

rapecrisis.org.uk/statistics.php

Datun · 25/08/2017 12:28

manclife

Yes, I've read those sites. But it doesn't separate into prison and no prison. Even clicking on the downloadable report doesn't do it. As it takes me to a blank page. I might be doing it wrong though!

It seems to be very difficult statistic to get hold of.

And I can't see from your other link anything about prosecutions for misogynistic hate crimes other than:

"2) What are the number of people who have been prosecuted for misogyny hate crime against women in Nottinghamshire since it became classed as a crime by Nottinghamshire Police?"

"No information held although some crimes remain under investigation."

It also states that as a trial run misogyny as a hate crime was only considered for eight months. Stopping in December 2016.

NoLoveofMine · 25/08/2017 12:32

Hate crimes can be subject to a sentencing "uplift". From the CPS: When a defendant is convicted of a hate crime, the CPS can apply for a sentencing 'uplift' which has the effect of increasing the sentence.

If sexual violence against women and girls was viewed as a hate crime (which it isn't) then this also could be.

NoLoveofMine · 25/08/2017 12:36

Street harassment should also be classified as such seeing as women and girls constantly face it purely down to our sex. Sadly, this isn't even something which would even be investigated let alone seen as a hate crime.

MrsGWay · 25/08/2017 12:45

Hate crime legislation excludes hate crime against women although I believe some police forces have started treating this sort of abuse as a hate crime, don't know how that pans out in court though.

Is this actually true? I can't find anything on the web about it.

Datun · 25/08/2017 12:47

manclife

Most forces treat a crime which happens due to someone's sex as being a hate crime.

"Do some posters on MN even bother to do basic research before posting their diatribe?"

Perhaps you can point me in the direction of where sex is the basis for a hate crime. Because the CPS seem to disagree.

"Hate Crime What is it?

A Hate Incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someones prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender."

www.cps.gov.uk/northeast/victims_and_witnesses/hate_crime/

Datun · 25/08/2017 12:49

The Association of Chief Police Officers and the CPS have agreed a common definition of hate crime: "Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race; religion or perceived religion; sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation; disability or perceived disability and any crime motivated by hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender."

Not sex.

Rodhullstvaerial · 25/08/2017 12:53

Datun' s correct. Sex is not an aggravating hate crime factor.

IdoHaveAName · 25/08/2017 12:55

It's a case of 'I see, I want, I will have, You're a piece of meat'.

I was raped if that makes any difference. He's now doing 9 years so probably out in 5. Serial rapist.

Datun · 25/08/2017 12:59

IdoHaveAName

Flowers
MrsGWay · 25/08/2017 13:02

Thanks.

Datun · 25/08/2017 13:03

Rodhullstvaerial

Does the fact that Nottinghamshire trialled misogyny as a hate crime mean that an individual police force can determine what is or isn't a hate crime? Or do they generally have to to accept the guidelines from the CPS?

Datun · 25/08/2017 13:03

Sorry! I'm asking you a lot of questions today.

Manclife · 25/08/2017 13:21

The OP was about rape being a hate crime against women and I have provided links to 2 forces that do accept complaints of hate crime due to a person’s sex. I am also aware of other police forces doing this too (no I don’t have a link) and AFAIK the trail is now permanent. Should all forces take this up? I don’t see a problem with them doing it and can only help victims later in the court process.

I’m aware CPS and NPCC (ACPO was disbanded a while ago) do not state this but that’s because individual forces are taking the lead rather than the organisation. Which is a shame.

CPS do not dictate to police what they can/can’t do and regardless of it being deemed a ‘hate crime’ targeting a person due to their sex would be put forward as an aggravating factor which would go towards sentencing.

I’ve no statistics on the number of prosecutions etc but then if I’m honest I haven’t looked.

Manclife · 25/08/2017 13:32

@NoLoveofMine

"Street harassment should also be classified as such seeing as women and girls constantly face it purely down to our sex. Sadly, this isn't even something which would even be investigated let alone seen as a hate crime."

Its not a hate crime as it's not a 'crime' in the first place so couldn't therefore be a 'hate crime'. It could however be classed as a hate incident.

Rodhullstvaerial · 25/08/2017 13:57

Does the fact that Nottinghamshire trialled misogyny as a hate crime mean that an individual police force can determine what is or isn't a hate crime? Or do they generally have to to accept the guidelines from the CPS?

No, it's written in law. What I believe the Notts CC did was recorded "hate incidents" if there was a misogyny "qualifier"

Police now record "hate incidents" as well as hate crimes. I can't remember the exact definition of a hate "incident" but in brief it's any incident that any person (not necessarily the victim) believes has happened as a result of one of the qualifiers another poster outlined above. It doesn't even need to be a crime. For e.g. I've seen one report where a landlord didn't let a tenant use joss sticks. He believed it was because the landlord was racist so be reported it to the police. Obviously there is fuck all the police can/Will do about this but it's recorded and that person has an appointment made with an officer.

The Notts CC extended this idea to include any issue that any person thought was misogyny. If it wasn't a criminal offence then no changes to law was needed (as nothing would be done about it barring collecting stats) If it was a criminal offence it'd be dealt with as a stand alone, such as cat calling be dealt with as a public order offence (if serious enough) but not as an aggravated offence

Datun · 25/08/2017 14:02

Manclife

I can't see in that Nottingham police force link where it says they extended the trial after December 2016. That FOI was dated January 2017, where it said the trial had ended.

The Yorkshire police news is fantastic. It only began in May, but nonetheless.

Although it's good news, it needs to be rolled out across the entire country.

I've tried googling prosecutions, but so far I haven't found any.

This may be because people don't realise it is a crime.

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