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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

White women- it's all your fault

477 replies

WeldMeDaphne · 19/08/2017 22:27

I will preface this by saying that I am indeed a white woman. And I realise this affords me a lot of privilege.
Among a lot of the rhetoric around the Events unfolding in the US (mostly Charlottesville), I've seen a number of open letters to white women about our complicity in the neo-nazi and white supremacist movement in the US and elsewhere. Clearly those women marching last week on the nazi side were white, but there was a lot of suggestion that those white women not marching but associated with men marching (wives girlfriends etc) were just as culpable as the men wielding torches and assault rifles. I guess I would like some help understanding how this is a white woman issue rather than the white men being responsible for their own actions? I get that one of those pieces said those men are going home to pie cooked by their doting wives but I just feel as though a man who holds those views and has no issue with demonstrating them publically is unlikely to be a caring loving husband?
I am fully prepared to listen to all view points and I totally understand that the people on these marches are white, but they're mostly men, right? Sonhow is this women's fault?

OP posts:
muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:10

Gone I could send you numerous links but why should I, you clearly have Internet. It's not my job to educate you, I owe you nothing. It's something that I and people I know regularly read about and it happens often. It may not be palatable but that us the case.

muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:12

Acknowledge yes, and be willing to see other peoples experiences are not the same as yours. Unsure why all of the sudden your powerless to change it Confused. Anyway I'm done work tomorrow

Original poster
WeldMeDaphne · 21/08/2017 22:13

Sylvia, when I was younger (and I'm not going into detail becaus wit will be outing) I lived in a community in the US which was predominantly white, poor, comparatively low levels of education. The kind of people you might expect to find at a March on the wrong side (I was ignorant to any racism as I was a typically self centred teen). However, what I did observe and found truly horrifying, was the frequency of domestic violence. So this is why I struggle with the idea that any of these women who are not out there marching are in much of a position to really make much of a stand. If they're complicit, it's not by choice...

OP posts:
muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:13

So because you don't agree with me I have to provide you with date, your a fool GOne

muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:14

I have to provide you with data for what?

muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:14

So all the women with these men are victims of domestic violence?

Original poster
WeldMeDaphne · 21/08/2017 22:15

how the hell am I actually supposed to change my upbringing. I mean come on you're being ridiculous now.

OP posts:
SylviaPoe · 21/08/2017 22:15

And this is a Sarah Ditum one which I'm going to read now!

www.newstatesman.com/world/north-america/2017/08/why-are-we-so-desperate-blame-white-supremacy-women

Original poster
WeldMeDaphne · 21/08/2017 22:16

Of course they're not all victims of DV don't be disingenuous.

OP posts:
Gonegonegone · 21/08/2017 22:16

That article is better, but it doesn't link the studies. I'm not surprised poc are more commonly wrongly convicted, that's well known, but other than saying is more likely in cases where the victim is a white woman it doesn't show the figures where white women are routinely lying about black men raping them. Being more commonly wrongly convicted can be tiny % and it's much more common for rapists to walk free than for women of any colour to lie about being raped.

The rhetoric that female victims are all crying rape does very serious harm that I am sick of picking up first hand. You may feel more frustrated by white women wrongly accusing black males but I'm sick of women of all colours terrified to report because they fear not being believed, and most commonly it's women shouting them down as liars and sluts and whores and this imo does most harm worldwide.

SylviaPoe · 21/08/2017 22:18

I suspect there are high amounts of DV, because MRA is a gateway to the alt right.

But definitely some women are leaders in this. The wife with a purpose blog, she does not seem like a DV victim, and she was scheduled to speak at that march. She's very much a Serena Joy type.

Original poster
WeldMeDaphne · 21/08/2017 22:19

Thanks Sylvia- i do love Sarah Ditum. A good read!

OP posts:
Gonegonegone · 21/08/2017 22:19

Sarah ditum is allways worth reading.

Original poster
WeldMeDaphne · 21/08/2017 22:21

Wife with a purpose is slightly terrifying. I dunno, I see that sort of Christianity as almost a type of domestic violence. The concept of the surrendered wife and that kind of thing. It might not be the threat of physics violence but the church has quite a lot of sway in some pearls of the US (and I'm sure over here too).

OP posts:
Original poster
WeldMeDaphne · 21/08/2017 22:22

Physical violence obviously, not physics violence!

OP posts:
muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:23

Gone The rhetoric that female victims are all crying rape does very serious harm that I am sick of picking up first hand. You may feel more frustrated by white women wrongly accusing black males but I'm sick of women of all colours terrified to report because they fear not being believed, and most commonly it's women shouting them down as liars and sluts and whores and this imo does most harm worldwide.

Please don't ever accuse me of doing the above, as at no point have I said the above, don't try to decridit me because you don't agree with my views. Shame on you

muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:24

Change your upbringing how? I'm assuming you were talking to another poster?

Gonegonegone · 21/08/2017 22:26

Much ppl back up claims in discussions on here, that's standard.

And now you're being abusive, which is on you.

And yy re the DV. The thread with evette Dionne on Twitter was full of women blaming the white vics of DV from white supremacists for not speaking up and not leaving violent men. So lovely to see we are back to that again. (Think the article linked that had began the discussion was about the number if DV in white suoremacy, or maybe in terrorism, but either way it was all the women's fault not only for being stupid/weak enough to put up with white men's violence but also then the women were entirely responsible for the actions of the men following this. In comparison to the recent article where it was claimed black girls are more worldly or similar yet the radfems, plenty white, on twitter were quick to refute that).

muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:27

Gone I am not going to write a thesis for you just because I hit I nerve with you.

muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:28

Gone you just don't agree with me I don't need to add anything further Wink

Gonegonegone · 21/08/2017 22:29

You said you were sick of white women lying about black men raping them and getting them locked up.

You didn't say you were sick of the few cases where this happens. You didn't say you were sick of when a white woman dies like she blames black men not white. You said white women lie about black men raping them. So yes you are adding to that rhetoric.

muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:29

First you accuse me of slut shaming, accuse me of starring all wind cry rape and now accuse me of being abusive Confused urrm ok then.

muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:30

Gone can you copy what I wrote and paste it, that way you will quote me accurately rather than trying to twist my words to fit your narrative Wink

muchomo · 21/08/2017 22:35

posting again so you can see what I actually said Grin

I appreciate you acknowledging my point, but do you know what makes me really angry

  1. Seeing White Women time and time again benefiting from White Priviledge and whineing that they are disadvantaged. While women of colour have to work twice as hard in the work place and are not promoted as they should while less expecirirnced white women are.
  1. Feminists dropping women of colour and our struggles into their arguments as anecdotes when not having a clue what what our issues are and what we have to deal with.
  1. White women behaving like they are completely passive when it come to racism, ignoring their complicitness and benefiting from it.
  1. White Feminists completely ignoring the views and experiences of Women of colour and their experiences, and patronising them in relation to their culture, values and personal views.
  1. The casual racism by White Women towards women and men of colour
  1. Including Women of colour when its trendy or convenient without including their views.

That and a lot of other things annoy me.