I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***

[CosmicPineapple]

I am Jazz is a reality show focusing on the journey of a teenage transgirl/woman whos parents supported transition from aged 5 and has been on TV since aged 6.
Now aged 16.

I don't watch the show as I strongly disagree with everything about it. However I briefly saw a clip of the next episode as the tv happened to be on the channel that airs I am Jazz I had been watching say yes to the dress and it was about dating.

Jazz goes to a sort of speed dating event where everyone is sat in the dark. Jazz wants a relationship, which is normal for a teenager however Jazz does not tell the boys/men that they are trans and in fact male.
As they are in darkness Jazz feels that if they get to know each other without the barrier of seeing each other/being trans it may lead to a relationship.

For me this is totally wrong.
Why should it be ok for Jazz or anyone to withold the truth about a very important aspect of who they are?
Plus I would imagine there to be some very upset and angry teenage boys when they find out they have been duped and lied to.

I remember a good few years ago where a man killed his partner after finding out on a TV show that they were trans. There have been a few similar murders over the years.
I am in no way condoning the murder or harm of another person I am just highlighting the danger that can come if you lie about the sex you are and it should not be encouraged as no relationship can survive on lies.

I just wondered what other peoples thoughts are on the subject of lying about your sex to the people you date?

I have primary aged children and am pleased and relieved that DS is a traditional boy and dd more girly (bleurgh to both). I still encourage both the other way.
Five years ago it wouldn't have bothered me either way. Now I'm relieved the chances are low they'll ever be brainwashed into thinking they're something they're not if they happen to like 'the wrong toys'/equivalent as they get older.
Dh has a male cousin. Ten years ago he was into make up, outlandish female outfits. That was fine then. These days he'd be under the trans umbrella. He still is into all that but in mid 20s can do what he likes :)
Please tell me I'm talking crap. Happy to take it.

Not so long g ago I made some comment to DS about him being a boy (can't remember the context but something like "you're such a kind boy"). He replied he was at the moment but might find out he was a girl.
He was 9. They'd been talking about trans issues at school. I have no problems with that but they shouldn't be raising doubt for children where none previously existed.

^ I agree - but I also know that there are people with body dysphoria - they do think that something is 'wrong' with their bodies more so than they want to play with girls' toys, etc. This is like anorexia or where people think that their leg does not belong to them. These were the transsexuals of old. This is very rare but is a real mental illness.

I have ASD and was anorexic as a teen and into my early 20s. I felt there was something 'wrong' with my body- it didn't feel like mine, I hated the changes of puberty, I hated having periods. I wanted to carry on playing out and liking 'boys' things' like sci fi and fantasy and all things military.
However, I also had blonde curly hair, was very slim and liked girly clothes. Sometimes I think I had a very hard time growing up- but perhaps nowadays it would be worse....

stealth I absolutely agree. I have another son who is a complete stereotypical boy. He's now a teen and it hasn't occurred to me that he could be trans. Of course he could be hiding something from us but I think the likelihood is so remote that I don't pass time thinking about it.

Transsexuals - fine. I do get that. I know there genuinely are people born in the wrong body and everything should be done to help imo. But surely those numbers are tiny

I know there genuinely are people born in the wrong body

How do you think people are born in the wrong body?

I have no idea. I don't claim to understand it. Maybe I mean strong sense of misidentity. But there have always been these people. But there has been a huge explosion in numbers of trans

How do you think people are born in the wrong body

My understanding is that it isn't so much this as thinking that there is something wrong with their bodies. Just as anorexics see and experience fat where there is skin and bone there are those who look at their bodies and see a penis where there should not be one (and vice-versa, but FtTs are much more recent in surgical terms). It's a dysphoria - a mental illness - that is why I think that the term should be resurrected and used when appropriate.

Not so long g ago I made some comment to DS about him being a boy (can't remember the context but something like "you're such a kind boy"). He replied he was at the moment but might find out he was a girl

Jesus fucking Christ that shit is so fucking dangerous. That is what drew me here in the first place - knowing that this kind of way of teaching children and young people is becoming more common-place.

But there have always been these people

Have there?

Adalind - have there always been anorexics or people who think their leg does not belong to them? I'm not sure we know either way.

Or have there always been people with autism or ADHD or ADD or whatever?

I know there genuinely are people born in the wrong body

I think it is certainly possible to feel an overwhelming sense of disconnect from your body- but HOW - philosophically, practically, - could one have the 'wrong' body?

THAT IS your body!!!!!! Unless you believe in reincarnation or transmigration of souls or even that one day you will be able to have your brain transplanted- how could it be otherwise?????

It's a mental illness.

Does this help explain?

www.theguardian.com/science/2012/nov/14/please-amputate-this-leg

YetAnotherSpartacus

Can you explain what you see as the difference between dysphoria and dysmorphia?

Because my understanding was dysmorphia having a disconnect between your actual body and your perception of your body.

I thought gender dysphoria was the specific term for dysmorphia connected to your genitals (or sense of identity as it has now become).

Unfortunately, even gender dysphoria is now being discarded as a reason for being trans.

Trans is now becoming a lifestyle choice. With possible irreversible surgery and lifelong medication as a result, or byproduct, glossed over.

So children like those of the previous poster who think they can opt in or opt out of their sex are merely buying into something deadly serious with dangerous repercussions, because it's being sold to them as a lifestyle choice. And one that will get them special treatment, to boot.

It's almost Machiavellian. You like playing with girls' stuff? You can identify as a girl. Yay. At what point is it vehemently impressed upon them that according to trans ideology, this means surgically altering your body is a very real possibility. And the very first stage is taking hormones to arrest your sexual maturity.

I'm not suggesting people like Elsa bought this, in any way. She was devastated over her child identifying as trans. And has done her level best to steer her child away from medicalisation. Unfortunately, because medicalisation is pushed so thoroughly, she was left high and dry with zero therapy and had to scrape together the money to go privately. Fortunately, it seems to be having an effect on her child.

In my original post, I distinguished between 'body dysmorphia' (probably tautologous), where someone does see their body as 'wrong' and gender dysphoria, where someone is unhappy or discontented re their gender identity. I see body as biology (put crudely) and gender as about social roles. Does that help?

Datun - "phoria" is from the Greek for "feelings", "morphia" from the Greek for shape. So gender dysmorphia would be thinking your body was the wrong shape - an old-style transexual who wanted GRS to make their bodily appearance match their beliefs about what it should look like.

Gender dysmorphia, on the other hand, I take to mean feeling your own "internal gender" (whatever that is - a bit like a religious person's belief in their immortal soul, I don't personally have that belief) doesn't match the gender other people are projecting onto them based on their biologically sexed body. Explains the Alex Drummonds of this world, I guess - people who are quite happy with their actual sexed body, but want to insist that they really, really are women in every sense of the word woman. (Again, not a belief I share, just trying to make sense of where they claim to be coming from).

Gender dysphoria involves a conflict between a person's physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify. People with gender dysphoria may be very uncomfortable with the gender they were assigned, sometimes described as being uncomfortable with their body (particularly developments during puberty) or being uncomfortable with the expected roles of their assigned gender

This is the APA definition of gender dysphoria. To me it differs from body dysphoria understood as someone looking in the mirror and thinking 'that penis is wrong and does not belong on me' (ditto - why is that leg there - it isn't mine! or, 'why am I so fat' when I weigh 4.5 stone).

Is it the difference between believing your body should be the opposite sex and wishing it was the opposite sex? A subtle distinction I admit

Gah, typed Dysmorphia twice. Second para should start "Gender dysphoria, on the other hand..."

Dysphoria is a blanket term which will encompass those who feel discomfort about the shape of their bodies, AND those who feel quite okay with their bodies but think they are the opposite "gender" to that "assigned" to them by most of the people around them.

Adalind - no. That's not it. I don't think I'm up to explaining again right now. Later ...

YetAnotherSpartacus

Sorry, this is quite difficult to get a complete handle on. Partly because the words are so similar, but also because I think you are right. They are both being bundled together.

So dysmorphia, gender dysmorphia would be feeling of distress over your sexed genitals? Specific and describable.

Gender dysphoria a feeling that you are the opposite sex - a mental, internal feeling? So you're female, which means your body is female, despite the penis?

So two things.

Is a feeling of distress or repugnance over your genitalia automatically accompanied with wanting the genitalia of the opposite sex?

And secondly, I haven't seen any transperson talk about dysmorphia, of any description. Only gender dysphoria. They often describe it as hating their genitals, but it can also be just a feeling of wrongness, generally, in their sex.

So they are using the one term for both different types?

Why are late transitioning transwomen over represented in male dominated areas, like tech, the military, etc.

I've thought about this a fair bit, and wonder whether it is because of the limited exposure to the female experience you have in your life if you are male and work in a male-dominated profession.

I would be fascinated to test this theory by discovering whether there are any late transitioning transwomen who have worked as obstetricians or gynecologists, for example.

I'd also be interested to know how many late mtt transitioners who have had families with female spouses were actually present at the births of their children.

I guess my thinking here is that the more a male has exposure to and engages in supportive involvement with genuine biological female experiences, the more they must, surely, recognise their own maleness in contrast?

For example, I just can't get my head around the notion of a male who supports and observes his female partner through pregnancy and birth, sees his child being born, engages in support with breastfeeding, and then thinks "I'm just like a woman."

Surely, a rational human wouldn't be able to actually process such a level of doublethink?

But if you have no experience of such things: say, you are very young, or have never had much familiarity with women, or many women in your personal sphere etc, it could be a lot more easier to make that identification because then your notion of womanhood is more likely to be influenced by very gendered, stereotypical and reductivist representations in mass media.

"Is a feeling of distress or repugnance over your genitalia automatically accompanied with wanting the genitalia of the opposite sex?"

I'm sorry but if this is the case then women who are unhappy with their breast size or shape should get breast surgery on the NHS. If anyone is unhappy with their natural hair colour they ought to demand their hair colouring is paid by the NHS.

"He was 9. They'd been talking about trans issues at school"
Anyone who wants to protect their dc from this outrageous policy development: start talking to your primary age dc now.

Explain to them that human beings are male of female in terms of sex but that they should feel free to express themselves the way it works and pursue (legal) relationships that they find fulfilling, whatever their sex.

Explain to your dc whilst some people believe in the 'wrong body tale' (like some people believe in Jesus, Buddha, Muhamed, jedis, aliens) we in our family know that being in the wrong body is scientifically impossible, it's a belief not a measurable fact and never will be.

Whilst we respect other people's beliefs and sympathise with people who are troubled about their identity we don't need to buy into this narrative. We prefer to develop our own beliefs and lifestyle regardless of whether we have a penis or a vagina.

I will prep mine especially as I used to be a so called tomboy but am definitely sexually hetero and happy, have succesfully procreated and bf but I am also a brown belt in Karate and an active member in my shooting club. I have no time for bloody gender stereotypes e.g. high heels, frilly bloody clothes etc. We all carry typically male and female characteristics and likes it's a continuum, let's fight for this to be ok without mutilating confused and vulenarble individuals.

Sex is binary, gender is a construct and definitely not binary i'd argue that gender doesn't exist. It's sex discrimination not gender discretion ffs. For if I wear not typically 'feminine' garments, wear my hair short and am a carpenter I can still be in need of place at the women's refuge and I still need sanpro and contraception if I don't want to get pregnant.

Fuck gender.

PickingOakum

From what I have read the profile of late transitioning males is that they are generally the autogynephiles, the fetishist cross-dressers.

They are usually married, often more than once. And have fathered children, often have more than one family.

The "affinity" with womanhood comes from the cross dressing. It's entirely sexual and involves heavy porn use. It's frequently accompanied by feelings of guilt and shame. Memories of masturbating into family members' under wear , etc.

Secrecy and furtiveness are a part of it. If they 'come out ', that is often accompanied by a divorce. Coming out also, occasionally, seems lower the drive. As secrecy diminishes, so does the excitement.

However forcing people to use pronouns and treat them as a woman, is arousing.

It can also get rather bizarre when the desire to subsume womanhood directs self at biological functions like periods, childbirth, breastfeeding, etc. Taking an unhealthy interest in it, disguised as empathy or sympathy. Many videos on YouTube of AGP individuals claiming they have periods, using Tampax or attempting to breastfeed/produce milk.

So, in terms of your theory: I think they would be drawn towards things that are particularly for women, not avoid them. But because the interest is sexual, there is no understanding or appreciation of the material reality.

And as for joining typically male dominated jobs or sports, I think this could be an attempt to counter their hidden life of cross dressing. Because it does become a huge compulsion. And part of it is to be humiliated, cissification, etc. Presumably when that is accompanied by huge feelings of guilt and shame, there is a need to counteract it.