I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***

[CosmicPineapple]

I am Jazz is a reality show focusing on the journey of a teenage transgirl/woman whos parents supported transition from aged 5 and has been on TV since aged 6.
Now aged 16.

I don't watch the show as I strongly disagree with everything about it. However I briefly saw a clip of the next episode as the tv happened to be on the channel that airs I am Jazz I had been watching say yes to the dress and it was about dating.

Jazz goes to a sort of speed dating event where everyone is sat in the dark. Jazz wants a relationship, which is normal for a teenager however Jazz does not tell the boys/men that they are trans and in fact male.
As they are in darkness Jazz feels that if they get to know each other without the barrier of seeing each other/being trans it may lead to a relationship.

For me this is totally wrong.
Why should it be ok for Jazz or anyone to withold the truth about a very important aspect of who they are?
Plus I would imagine there to be some very upset and angry teenage boys when they find out they have been duped and lied to.

I remember a good few years ago where a man killed his partner after finding out on a TV show that they were trans. There have been a few similar murders over the years.
I am in no way condoning the murder or harm of another person I am just highlighting the danger that can come if you lie about the sex you are and it should not be encouraged as no relationship can survive on lies.

I just wondered what other peoples thoughts are on the subject of lying about your sex to the people you date?

And that's the other thing. 16 year olds appearing on reality TV shows. Exploitation

My concern is that it wouldn't Stealth
Already language and science are being bastardised in favour of no hurt feelings.

It will be interesting to see if children's commissioner position is ever clarified
Or chief medical officer should be wading in

It will be interesting to see if children's commissioner position is ever clarified
Or chief medical officer should be wading in

I suspect with the female hormones that Jazz's XY body would not normally be exposed to and the natural male hormones supresssed there's going to be a huge medical issue not too far in the future.

If you don't naturally have the the receptors etc to deal with these hormones there has to be massive side effects at some point.

(I'm a scientist and though this isn't my field I see the effects introducing anything artificial, even prescribed drugs, has).

Yes definitely. It seems common sense that flooding a child's body with artificial hormones before puberty will have adverse physical and mental effects

Children are being referred by the NHS to gender identity clinics. Don't think for a second it's not happening here.

Does anyone else remember the outrage years ago when a family of severely disabled girl who needed full care wanted to delay puberty so the family could continue to take care of her and stop her from having periods she couldn't take care of? How did we go from that to letting children choose to do that?

"Children as young as three" that should say.

Yes Gina I remember that and the outcry yet even the likes of the BBC promote transing children.

I also suspect the future will reveal the massive and insidious influence drugs companies will have had on all of this.

In my darker moments, I wonder if this is some fundy plot to castrate gay males and stop them having sex.....

All these sweet fey gay boys- are they to be just loaded up with hormones and condemned to having their penis removed and replaced with rotting flesh?

AdalindSchade This article links to research about twins refuting the 'born in the wrong body' idea: dailysignal.com/2017/07/03/im-pediatrician-transgender-ideology-infiltrated-field-produced-large-scale-child-abuse

Poor Jazz. This is heartbreaking and it's absolutely unbelievable that it's been allowed.

I guess we can expect a lot more of it in the future. Until, as seems inevitable, the consequences start to kick in for Jazz and the others after Jazz and the world starts to come to its senses.

I wish there were a way back for Jazz.

This is child abuse, I would liken it to FGM as pps have. Jazz's parents should be utterly ashamed of themselves.

What I can't get my head round is what the fact Jazz liked tutus etc as a toddler, and now fancies boys as a tween, has anything to do with Jazzs sex- this is gender stereotyping and homophobia at its very worst - and people seem to think it's all very right on and modern, it's really not, it's terrifying.

It's illegal, I believe to administer hormones to anyone under age in this country. Although you can do it privately. Helen Webberley famously sterilised a 12-year-old girl girl doing just that. She's also the one who prescribes hormones on the basis of a 17 second assessment.

Susie Green is the head of Mermaids, a support group for parents with trans children. She took her son, aged 12, I believe, abroad to get hormones, and to Thailand at 16 for genital surgery.

Mermaids is the go to group when addressing anything in the public about trans, including government legislation. None of the people running it are medically qualified.

Mermaids is responsible for misrepresenting the suicide statistics. Within hours of their presentation, it was repeated over, and over across the board. It was presented in such a way that the claim was, that of 2000 people interviewed, 41% had attempted suicide. When in actual fact, only 27 of those 2000 people were trans. Only eight of whom had contemplated suicide in the last year. Even the authors of the survey said caution should be used as the survey was self selected by people who could already be having issues. And that instances of self harm could have been presented as a suicide attempt.

It's also worth noting that this figure is only marginally higher than any other minority group. Including LGB youth in general.

I'm not, for a single second suggesting that anyone should ignore suicidal ideation in children. But the Samaritan guidelines expressly say to play down the notion of suicide as an option amongst children, or anyone. Ideation can pick up speed very quickly if you think you are a member of a cohort who is susceptible.

The point is, I see no benefit in frightening parents (or children) by misrepresenting figures. Other than to push an agenda. Life is difficult enough for parents of children with gender dysphoria.

Also, given 2000 children went to a gender clinic last year, if suicide was that prevalent you would be seeing one a week. I can't find any reports of teen trans suicide in the UK. Happy to be corrected. But when you google it, all you get is the stats quoted by Mermaids, not any reports.

Mermaids were told by a judge to have nothing to do with a child whose mother said was trans. The child went to live with his father and Mermaids were forbidden any further contact as the judge thought the child was not trans at all. They took to Twitter criticising the judge. Calling him ignorant. Despite the fact that the judge is the foremost advocate in terms of trans law and has written the forward for a book about same-sex families.

It's said that you cannot make a child trans. Which to me should mean you can't manufacture gender dysphoria in a child. But it sounds subtely different. Because you can have gender dysphoria, without ending up trans.

Even if Jazz is genuinely trans, whatever you take that to mean, I still think that this treatment, or cure is completely wrong.

This thread is a heartbreaking read.

That poor kid.

I thought your list of questions above was excellent, Datun. These are topics which absolutely must be discussed, and we must keep on discussing them here, because here is where the parents are, who could easily be guilted and hoodwinked onto the bandwagon. I just hope people can get over their knee jerk "this is transphobia", and really get to grips with the reality of what transing children does to them.

Surely these children, even if the operations or procedures have been done privately here (wtf???) or abroad should have social services involvement here for severe physical abuse?
I cant believe this is going on

SophoclesTheFox

The issue has become political. When it is actually medical.

There are so many reasons for people to call themselves transgender. If you break it down, it includes cross dressing fetishists, disassociative disorder, escape from restrictive gender roles, gender dysphoria.

It is fully accepted that there is not a one size fits all. In which case, we need different categories. Because giving civil rights to people who are discriminated against because they have gender dysphoria should not mean that those same rights go to cross dressing fetishists.

@Datun - question for you ...

I've been thinking of late that a return to the old category of body dysmorphia might be useful in order to distinguish those trans people who really think that their body is 'wrong', in the same way as other dysmorphias are about being fat/thin, thinking a limb is 'wrong' etc. from those who 'want to be a girl because they like sparkly stuff and this does not sit well with a penis' - i.e. 'gender dysphoria'. In the old days I used to read of transsexuals (as they were known, and I understand why this word is not liked) knowing that they should not have a penis or just being generally horrified by the primary and secondary sexual characteristics of their bodies. Now I read that many people 'want to live as a man', 'can't live as a woman', 'know that they are trans because they like things associated with the other gender'. Personally, I think that many of this ilk are simply confused or have bought into rigid stereotypes, but 'gender dysphoria' might explain their situations. I just think this is so radically different from body dysmorphia. What do you think?

Apart from autogynephiles, i rarely read stuff from transwomen who don't have gender dysphoria. It can be mild or it can be severe.

They seem to be in a minority, at the moment.

Problem is someone with AGP absolutely yearns to be a woman, but it's sexually motivated, rather than motivated by gender dysphoria.

But you can't tell by looking. Both motivations rely completely on the person telling you.

i rarely read stuff from transwomen who don't have gender dysphoria. It can be mild or it can be severe

The poster formally known as Elsa described her child with dysmorphia and I think this is what TumbleTrans also described a while back. I'm getting at a distinction between dysmorphia and dysphoria because they are about different things. Also, the DSM dropped dysmorphia a while back and replaced it with dysphoria. I personally think dysphoria is a dangerous idea, but I 'get' dysmorphia because it describes a real, actual mental illness (like anorexia).

I'm not trying to distinguish the 'real' dysphorics from the fake ones. I'm suggesting that dysphoria is a dangerous and silly term altogether.

Also meant to say in relation to Jazz I'm not sure it was dysmorphia - a real, tangible feeling that something is wrong with a (sexed) body, as being stereotypically feminine and feeling something was wrong with his 'gender' (rather than sex).

Jazz didn't say they WERE a girl they said they wanted to be a girl. Because they wanted long hair and girly clothes

So much of this would be solved if we let boys be whatever they wanted to be as children

My grandfather once got thrown out of a relative's house as he claimed that the reason this relative's son turned out gay was because he played with dolls when he was younger.

We laughed at the time, but it seems the height of sophisticated reasoning compared to some of these experts.

IMO TA is gender fascism.

What I'd like to see emerge from this is that people belonging to the female sex aka women and people belonging to the male sex aka men feel free and are not discriminated against whatever clothing they choose to wear, whatever activities they pursue, whatever professions and sports the prefer. There shouldn't be any girly/laddish categories and people of either sex should feel free to live a life that suits their personality.

However sex segregated spaces must prevail. Sports, women's refuge, girls/ boys school must not mix the sexes.

One of my sons spent several years in princess dresses, admiring female characters in films and cartoons with towels on his head to be rapunzel and a penchant for appearing in his sisters bikini's. He had no interest in football, power rangers, spiderman and other "boy" things It would have been very easy to go down the trans route with him if we were so inclined, he ticked all the boxes that those who trans their children highlight as reasons why their sons are actually girls.

What did we do? We went with it, we didn't make a big deal about it and as he has got older he's well over the princess phase but his interests are much more "girlie" and 90% of his friends are girls. Does that make him trans? No it doesn't, it makes him a boy who knows his own interests and isn't afraid to explore them. Will he become trans? Who knows? I suspect not, but when he's old enough he can make that decision for himself but he'll be nowhere near any hormone treatment during adolescence.

He currently has a very clear mindset that he's a boy and because he's confident in his interests and we've not made a big deal about it either way it's not a problem. My instinct is that he'll be a gay man and that's absolutely fine. If he's straight or he's trans that's also fine but it has to be something that comes to him naturally and in time without intervention either way from us. This is where Jazz's parents have behaved appallingly.