Son not welcome at sewing workshop

[Cheryl39]

Just tried to sign up for me, my 16 year old daughter and 18 year old son to join a one day sewing workshop and the tutor was very unwelcoming about my son joining. She said the workshops are mainly attended by women and the group as a whole might be uncomfortable talking about women's issues with a young man present. I feel really sad about this and so have not signed up.....is the tutor being discriminatory......what are your thoughts?

"I personally don't think feminism is just about women fighting for women's rights."
The clue's in the name.

If men want to help that's wonderful. Allies are great. But feminists? It's a pretty high bar, frankly and I don't think many men would make it.

Anyway, I presume your son said "I'm sorry you feel like that. Here's my £50-see you Saturday"

Why don't you or your son set up your own sewing club

Coz it would not be half as much fun as waltzing into a feminist site and telling a quirky story in which the oppression of males features as well as following up by naive but provocative statements about what feminism is.

Making feminism exclusively about women encourages a backlash against it.

Lol you're thinking of equalism or some other made up ism

Unlike the sewing group, feminism is a woman only space.

It could be there are women in the class who would have to stay away if there were a man in the class. Look for other classes

Then they should stay away, and look for other classes.

Why don't you or your son set up your own sewing club

It's not a sewing club, it's a course/workshop.
Not sure he'd learn much if he was teaching himself.

I think it is utterly ridiculous to make these sorts of distinctions in courses designed to teach skills.

well, of course, I agree, the skills are irrelevant - and yet, as an 18 year old wandering into my first electronics lab, in a building where you could count the women on one hand, in a room where I was the only woman, and a good 8 inches shorter than anyone else present, it was intimidating in a way that the 6', 16 year old boy in my textiles GCSE didn't experience.

The one day sewing workshops do stuff like cushions not hand sewn lingerie.

Really? Because last time I looked at this sort of thing (I picked glass blowing - nice and equal opportunities) - there were multiple, short term courses for learning specific skills - eg. sewing a bra, or making a skirt, or upholstering a chair etc. A one day lingerie course is completely possible, although likely not the case here.

Why don't you or your son set up your own sewing club

Coz it would not be half as much fun as waltzing into a feminist site and telling a quirky story in which the oppression of males features as well as following up by naive but provocative statements about what feminism is

The opening post had nothing to do with a sewing club - it was a one day workshop.

I don't think the OP is in good faith but some of the replies on here are ridiculous.

There is no justification that classes for technical skills like sewing or car maintenance should be set up as female only or male only.

Be glad, i wouldn't want to go and be asked or hear people talking about women issues.

and yet, as an 18 year old wandering into my first electronics lab, in a building where you could count the women on one hand, in a room where I was the only woman, and a good 8 inches shorter than anyone else present, it was intimidating in a way that the 6', 16 year old boy in my textiles GCSE didn't experience

And so what? You (generic you) can't complain about the lack of women in STEM and say oh it's so intimidating because I'm short and a girl.

Doesn't it rather prove a point when advocating for women's rights, in order to redress the equality imbalance, elicits a backlash? More feminism needed, not giving in and making it about men. If you're still not convinced, consider taking your argument to BME advocates. Why don't you tell them to focus on Caucasian rights. Let us know how that goes.

"There is no justification that classes for technical skills like sewing or car maintenance should be set up as female only or male only"
Actually, I can see an argument for both men only sewing classes and women only car maintainance classes. They are both areas where the balance is overwhelmingly towards one sex, and segregated classes might well redress thar.

There's also a benefit for older men in things like that shed project, because otherwise they can become isolated in old age.

As people have tried to tell you, a sewing group can be a safe way to get women out of the house.

No, they should not have to stay at home toosexyforyahshirt
I'm not going to explain it. If you were ever involved with refugee or DV support you'd already know.

Jeez. She knows a bloke won the last series of the Great British Sewing Bee right?

As people have tried to tell you, a sewing group can be a safe way to get women out of the house

This is a ridiculous reason for turning away a young man. You can replace sewing group with anything: book group, running club, cooking class, cinema visit, a walk....are all those "safe spaces" as well

I'm not going to explain it. If you were ever involved with refugee or DV support you'd already know

I am, and your point is still ridiculous. We run special groups for women within DV support structures, we do not advocate that any PAID, COMMERCIAL activity that sounds a bit feminine should turn away men on the basis that another paying customer may be a victim of DV.
You are laughable. It's not even a sewing group, its a one day workshop!

Do you think there's a difference in dynamic between me attending a car mechanics course as the only woman, and a man attending a sewing course as the only man?

I do. There is always this what's the sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander element to these questions.

But it's not a level playing field. A lone woman on a course of men could feel uncomfortable. A woman only course which admitted man also could make the women uncomfortable (albeit in a slightly different way).

It doesn't always happen, obviously. And it isn't always that way round. I'm sure there are men who might feel uncomfortable surrounded by women.

But the majority of the time, it will be women who are made to feel uncomfortable. You only have to look at the gender debate; there aren't any men jumping down in case a transman shares their bathroom.

Or appropriates the word man. They couldn't care less.

That's not to say there should be rules about people joining clubs for the opposite sex.

However, the power dynamic is unequal. Therefore these situations will carry that dynamic with them.

OP, know a lot of feminists feel as though feminism should include men saying it is about the rights of humans. Equality for all.

I completely agree that a man can be a feminist ally, but as he lives in a man's world and not a woman's world, he will never truly appreciate what is like going through life as a woman. He can understand it intellectually, he can feel emotional about it, he can agree with all of it and be determined to help, and then he can walk straight out the door, leave it all behind and get an unlicensed taxi without a second thought.

It is that difference in experience that, to me, means there is a distinction between a male feminist and a female feminist, which is why I call a male feminist an ally, not a feminist.

It's not meant to be divisive, it's not meant to be alienating. It's merely an acknowledgement that women, really, really do know best what it's like being a woman.

Plus feminism goals will automatically produce equality, as a result.

But it's not a level playing field. A lone woman on a course of men could feel uncomfortable. A woman only course which admitted man also could make the women uncomfortable (albeit in a slightly different way)

Neither are justifications for single sex courses for technical skills for things like car maintenance or sewing or baking or cooking which can be done equally as well (or equally as badly) by both sexes.

If the "one day workshop" is really a front for the sort of groups some of you are going on about then the organiser is an idiot.

Although i agree with lass, maybe the organiser is a very optimistic radical feminist who thinks that the group can sort all of the womens issues in one meeting

I don't think the OP is in good faith and if she/he/they isn't a lot of the replies are giving her/he/them plenty of ammunition.

There are different opinions on what feminism is. There are several strands of Feminism. This is not me being naive or provocative. You are welcome to disagree with me but I am not alone in thinking the more men willing to stand by women and who feel comfortable saying they care about women having equal rights and being treated fairly and with respect, the better.....that is not the same as making feminism all about them.....the he for she campaign has some good points on this....billions of people have signed that they support this campaign that argues that it is not just a women's issue, we should stand together. I also don't think racism is an issue that just ethnic minorities should be involved in.....people that say issues don't affect them because they are not women themselves or because they are not from a minority group themselves, shouldn't just stand back....that makes them part of the problem......we are stronger and better together.

I'm now getting all sentimental over GB Sewing Bee after reading this thread.

I used to be part of a Stitch N Bitch group for a couple of years. Once a man joined and did come occasionally, but he took over the conversation, until one woman joined as part of her therapy for recovery due to mental health issues. I liked her a lot and she didn't always attend. However the man complained about the group because she often spoke a lot. I'm not sure how it was handled but he didn't come back.

I love mixed sex craft groups and there is a lot be gained from it. However, I do feel that women's artistic talent is often overlooked when it comes to their skill.

It's school holidays isn't it?

Chery-can you give 3 examples of things feminists should do
To be more inclusive of men?

But it's not a level playing field. A lone woman on a course of men could feel uncomfortable. A woman only course which admitted man also could make the women uncomfortable (albeit in a slightly different way)

"Neither are justifications for single sex courses for technical skills for things like car maintenance or sewing or baking or cooking which can be done equally as well (or equally as badly) by both sexes."

I agree. Which is why I said there shouldn't be rules.

I can totally understand women wanting to keep a woman hobby group confined to women, and at the same time completely agree that they can't.

Today 13:13 BertrandRussell

Chery-can you give 3 examples of things feminists should do
To be more inclusive of men?

I'd be very interested in the answer to that.