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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Son not welcome at sewing workshop

376 replies

Cheryl39 · 20/07/2017 21:15

Just tried to sign up for me, my 16 year old daughter and 18 year old son to join a one day sewing workshop and the tutor was very unwelcoming about my son joining. She said the workshops are mainly attended by women and the group as a whole might be uncomfortable talking about women's issues with a young man present. I feel really sad about this and so have not signed up.....is the tutor being discriminatory......what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
Original poster
Cheryl39 · 21/07/2017 01:36

Brilliant lateral thinking Dragonflycushion. Smile

OP posts:
VestalVirgin · 21/07/2017 05:21

I am a member of an on line knitting group. I don't knit. Because it's not about that. Women's only groups are being shut down all over the place. They are having to go underground in order to remain female only.

That was my thought, too.

OP, don't throw a tantrum. Perhaps it is a women's only group that is not advertised as such because they would be attacked if they advertised it. Which is very understandable. That is how things are nowadays - one cannot openly advertise anything as only for women. And since men specifically want to invade women's private spaces, a "sewing workshop" front will attract less invaders than advertising it as women's group, while at the same time providing a patriarchy-approved explanation for only female participants.

I am sure you can find a workshop where your son is welcome!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 21/07/2017 07:35

It all depends how the group is advertised but yeah, if it's as the op describes it is utterly wrong to exclude men.

I am indeed familiar with the situation where if you want to form a group for women it's simpler to set up a sewing group than to call it a women's group because of all the men who have a 'moral' objection to women meeting on their own. But if you do that you have to accept that occasionally you might get a man who actually wants to do craft! And ime it works because the man who wants to learn craft is generally a lot less of a problem than the man who wants to disrupt a women's group. You can't use the difficulty of making female space as an excuse to advertise your group as mixed and then exclude men. If nothing else it's the quickest way to draw attention to the underground feminism, surely?!

Datun · 21/07/2017 07:46

I'm now seeing all these women absolutely aghast that they can't discuss their secret plans to overthrow the patriarchy.

Rushing around frantically buying up secondhand sewing machines and swapping their trenchcoats and binoculars for pinnies and a benign smile.

"We have to sew, for fucksake?"

"Who knows what a pleat is?"

"Marjorie, your night vision goggles are poking out of your bag!"

Voiceforreason · 21/07/2017 07:56

I am horrified by the nsture of some of these posts. Many are hostile and a few plainly sinister. All the OP wanted to do was enrol her son up for a one day workshop for heavens sake! My mother was a trained tailoress and habitually worked alo vside men. The fashion industry has always been so. All this talk of women only underground groups, one would think men are some alien species. Even if you have no sons, brothers or other male relatives you are all the daughters of men! As for having meetings for women and boys up to 10 being allowed I am appalled! Complete and utter nonsense spread and encouraged by extremists. No different than racial hatred. Would you all support a 'white only' group? Biggots!

BetsyM00 · 21/07/2017 08:05

Grin at Datun. What a fantastic picture you paint, I can just see it!

And Grin at Voiceofreason for completely different reasons. Would you approve of black people meeting to discuss their oppression?

BertrandRussell · 21/07/2017 08:09

"I am horrified by the nsture of some of these posts. Many are hostile and a few plainly sinister."

I think the night vision goggles bit was a joke. Women do sometimes make jokes. I realise that you may not have noticed-they don't seem to do it on telly much, but I promise, women really can be funny.

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 21/07/2017 08:09

Many are hostile and a few plainly sinister.

Err - they are? Could you point them out?

As for having meetings for women and boys up to 10 being allowed I am appalled!

Are women not allowed to have women's meetings then? Should we never be allowed to congregate without adult male supervision?

What exactly is the issue you have with it? Bare in mind that things like girl guides and the WI - places where women could traditionally expect to have womens' only spaces are disappearing by being forced to be inclusive of men. Do you not agree that sometimes, there are some subjects that women might feel more comfortable discussing, or things women might feel more comfortable doing without men around?

Not that that's here nor there with a sewing class - it all really hinges on how it was advertised but without that information from the OP it's impossible to know what's going on here.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 21/07/2017 08:17

I fully agree with women's online groups and your post, Voiceofreason, shows why they feel the need to go underground or madjerade as crochet circles.

I did find the sewing group thing odd, but after other posters explained I agree with them.

Just find a different group OP, there will others more suitable.

BertrandRussell · 21/07/2017 08:19

As it's a one day thing I doubt if it's a cover for one of those groups that encourage women to look at their genitals with mirrors (I am very old!) It seems much more likely that the person you talked to was a dick.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 21/07/2017 08:24

Unless it's part of a recruitment drive, Bertrand #sinister

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 21/07/2017 08:32

Many are hostile and a few plainly sinister

Where?

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 21/07/2017 08:37

Unless it's part of a recruitment drive, Bertrand #sinister

To be fair, it's always been in the back of my mind that in the event of the zombie apocalypse, I have many useful skills (beer/wine brewing, cheese making, spinning, knitting, sewing, bread making etc.) - perhaps a sewing group would be an ideal place to find other, similarly skilled women so we can all be prepared together.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 21/07/2017 08:37

If its a one day sewing group then it certainly shouldn't exclude men

Unless it has been set up for certain religious groups which I certainly doubt

I can understand people getting upset if its a long term group and adding someone of the opposite sex would alter the dynamic...but thats tough and they just have to get used to it

I hooe you find a more inclusive course or they existing grup accepts your son OP

(Why did everone jump to periods when the phrase 'womans issues' was mentioned...is that the only issue women have?)

BertrandRussell · 21/07/2017 08:42

Maybe the group is for...............making body bags....................

YetAnotherSpartacus · 21/07/2017 08:45

Rufus - posters didn't jump to the discussion re periods - apparently, the teacher named this issue as a reason why a male should not be able to attend.

It all sounds very ... odd (bit like another thread on the go in AIBU about women and crime)...

Datun · 21/07/2017 08:47

BertrandRussell

'Make your own grappling hook'.

chips4teaplease · 21/07/2017 08:49

Some sewing groups exist specifically (though are not named as such) to provide opportunities for women who would normally be at home due to their families' religious and cultural expectations, to get together, practise their English, gain confidence in being out and about in their locality etc. These things are major. Having a young man in the group would make it impossible for some of the women to attend.

And anyone who thinks the conversation of women is the same as the conversation of eighteen-year-old men is deluded.

I go to an all-women's bookclub. A man I know gave me all the 'inclusiveness' spiel about why he should be allowed to go. Then admitted that if he went, he would see it mainly as an opportunity to meet women, hopefully for sex. Sometimes, groups are actually better being just women.

drspouse · 21/07/2017 08:50

That is how things are nowadays - one cannot openly advertise anything as only for women
Rubbish. I'm in a women's group that is openly advertised as such.

Datun · 21/07/2017 08:57

Voiceforreason

Horrified, eh?

Most people think the OPs son should have the opportunity to learn sew at this group.

It was the odd reaction of the workshop organiser that prompted the speculation.

And yes, women's groups are being targetted and shut down. Michfest being the most famous.

Forty years of women only celebration gone. Because of the vandalism of transactivists.

Four feminist Facebook groups that I'm on. Regularly deleted by Facebook. They also delete posts and groups who use the word dyke. But allow threats of rape to remain.

Comment after comment in BTL media articles deleted for daring to object to transactivism.

Women doxxed and no platformed for wanting to speak.

Dozens and dozens of women being told to leave their woman only groups because they object to the presence of men identifying as women taking over.

So maybe you should be horrified, because yes it is sinister.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 21/07/2017 08:58

Oh yes i see yet

Abject apologies

I did wonder...

Datun · 21/07/2017 08:58

drspouse

I'm sure they can advertise it for women only. But they can't implement it, if a man wants to join. Unless it's private.

Redken24 · 21/07/2017 08:59

I wish my dh could sew.
He's a bit of a perfectionist so it would be great 😂

Redken24 · 21/07/2017 09:00

Sorry yeah she is being very unfair! What a shame that she feels the way she does.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 21/07/2017 09:00

Oh and i also don't understand why this thread is in feminism as it doesn't seem to have much to do with it

Could you explain OP, quite understand if you can't sometimes people feel certain boards are a better fit