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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Son not welcome at sewing workshop

376 replies

Cheryl39 · 20/07/2017 21:15

Just tried to sign up for me, my 16 year old daughter and 18 year old son to join a one day sewing workshop and the tutor was very unwelcoming about my son joining. She said the workshops are mainly attended by women and the group as a whole might be uncomfortable talking about women's issues with a young man present. I feel really sad about this and so have not signed up.....is the tutor being discriminatory......what are your thoughts?

OP posts:
NoLoveofMine · 22/07/2017 16:51

They are. Lavatories are routinely segregated. As are changing rooms. I'd much prefer unisex spaces which allow for user's personal privacy. I'd feel safer there than a deserted female only loo or changing room. They'd be easier to provide attendants for too.

I meant the majority of spaces in general when out and about. You may personally feel safer in unisex lavatories or changing rooms but many, myself included, wouldn't.

toosexyforyahshirt · 22/07/2017 16:54

A one day sewing course? Bullshbt. What are you going to do? Learn to thread a needle?

That is probably all you would learn, as you would be wasting your time wittering at people about Eton and vaginas, but generally you leave with an entire made piece and several new skills.

Since its clear you don't actually understand what a sewing workshop is, nor understand OP's problem, what are you actually doing on the thread?

claritytobeclear · 22/07/2017 16:58

NoLove, I actually said the issue, of sex segregation, is complex and that I can fully understand why women who have been abused by men feel vulnerable and thus there is a need for women only spaces. I just don't think they solve the problem of sexual inequality or do anything to help challenge gender stereotypes - I feel they might actually hinder this. Added to this equality is safer I feel than segregation, which calls for unisex spaces over segregated ones.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/07/2017 17:03

as you said I think it completely wrong to have refused her son joining the workshop

I'm glad we agree on something. I think the issue is where do you fix the line at "need" for separate facilities or services and simply "wants".

If you fix that point too early all you are doing is bolstering stereotypes (an 18 year old boy can't possibly be interested in sewing, go and make beer or all the men are going to be horrible to an 18 year old girl at a car mechanic course)

If you set it too late it is mixed sex hospital wards.

NoLoveofMine · 22/07/2017 17:03

Whether they do or not, their role is for those women not to solve the problem of sexual inequality. I believe we need to fight this as well as provide such spaces and services. I'd love there to be a time they're not needed.

Elendon · 22/07/2017 17:05

Lass. You are the one inventing scenarios of the OP being on holiday and muscling in on a local sewing workshop for local people in an ever more desperate attempt to justify her son's exclusion.

I can invent those scenarios because I wasn't there and neither were you.

SenecaFalls · 22/07/2017 17:07

Sewing workshops are usually targeted to a specific skill or project so you do learn more than needle threading. The last one I attended was on making and fitting women's trousers. There was one man in the class. He brought his wife to be his fit model. There was a separate changing room so none of us got naked in front of each other or him.

NoLoveofMine · 22/07/2017 17:07

I think the issue is where do you fix the line at "need" for separate facilities or services and simply "wants".

I agree on this. I'm not sure where the line should be drawn though (and it's not my place to say either). I can certainly see a need in many circumstances. On issues such as that raised by the OP I'd rather just challenge these outdated stereotypes of one pursuit being for one particular sex, which excluding the OP's son from a sewing workshop does the opposite of in my opinion.

Elendon · 22/07/2017 17:07

Lass If you set it too late it is mixed sex hospital wards.

I'm so pleased this discussion has moved on from Eton to mixed sex hospital wards.

All for the want to thread a needle.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/07/2017 17:09

I doubt you would get anywhere if you signed up to a one day course regarding 'mechanics' (what sort of mechanics are we talking about, car, electronics?) or a craft bee making one day course (anyone, seriously, anyone?)

Why would you think a woman could not sign up for a course on car mechanics or beer making? Many women do go car maintenance classes. The beer class was suggested as a suitable alternative for the Ops son- do you think it is something a woman should not be interested In?

A one day sewing course? Bullshit. What are you going to do? Learn to thread a needle?

Google is your friend. There are 100s of these courses available. Over the course of 6 hours or so you would learn the basics- including probably the easy way to thread a needle.

NoLoveofMine · 22/07/2017 17:12

There are also many women involved in beer and many female brewers.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/07/2017 17:14

There was a separate changing room so none of us got naked in front of each other or him

I wondered about that. The argument you could not have a man for that reason does not hold water for me as I don't particularly want to undress in front of any one really.

Elendon · 22/07/2017 17:14

Making and fitting trousers, regardless of the sex, is a skill. Not a one day workshop. It might be a workshop to reignite your previous skills as a sewer/dressmaker/tailor.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/07/2017 17:16

I can invent those scenarios because I wasn't there and neither were you

You can invent as many scenarios as you want- they don't however add any substance to your points.

Elendon · 22/07/2017 17:17

Lass I would sign up for a course on beer making and mechanics, but I certainly wouldn't sign up for a one day event, unless it was a taster session. They are highly skilled.

As is sewing.

But ignore the point. Carry on.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/07/2017 17:23

Making and fitting trousers, regardless of the sex, is a skill. Not a one day workshop. It might be a workshop to reignite your previous skills as a sewer/dressmaker/tailor.

As I said Google is your friend if you really cannot imagine what one might learn on a one day course (hard to believe given you have invented the OP being on holiday and ousting the locals but there you go )

The one day courses are set for the relevant skills level of none to limited. No one apart from you is suggesting you would create tailored trousers on a one day course. That would need a series.

SylviaPoe · 22/07/2017 17:24

Lass, or someone else who knows, what are the rules around single sex activities?

Has there been a recent legal change?

I know there are single sex engineering courses for girls, DIY clubs for men and so on, so I assume they must be legal?

I appreciate this doesn't explain the situation with the OP, but I was just wondering more generally.

Elendon · 22/07/2017 17:26

Lass is in Scotland which has a different legal system. Unless you come from Scotland.

grannytomine · 22/07/2017 17:29

I wondered about that. The argument you could not have a man for that reason does not hold water for me as I don't particularly want to undress in front of any one really. I was thinking that, stripping off in front of a roomful of women doesn't appeal. I don't mind in changing rooms as everyone is busy changing but if people are sitting waiting for the teacher to get to them and you are stripped off they are bound to have a look.

SylviaPoe · 22/07/2017 17:29

Thanks Elendon. Does anyone else know what the law is in England?

I assumed single sex courses were legal.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 22/07/2017 18:36

The Equality Act 2010 applies to England and Wales and most of it also applies to Scotland so for all purposes the law is the same. It does not apply to NI.

Some one posted a link to it way back. If you are providing a single sex service there should be an objevtive justification for it that the service is better provided that way and it should be clear to anyone who attempts to use the service and it is single sex.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/equality-act-guidance

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/your-rights-equality-businesses-providing-goods-facilities-or-services-public

TheProspector · 22/07/2017 18:48

Thanks, I've looked at the link.

So you can only have single sex groups without justification if it is a private club.

Elendon · 22/07/2017 19:28

Lass I wondered about that. The argument you could not have a man for that reason does not hold water for me as I don't particularly want to undress in front of any one really.

What if a man thought it was okay to strip off in front of everyone?

The equality laws are not laws. Guidance.

grannytomine · 22/07/2017 19:48

I'm not worried about other people stripping off but I don't want to.

EBearhug · 23/07/2017 02:46

I'm not sure where the holiday thing comes into it, but I think the idea of a one-day course on something you're interested in seems a fine way of spending a holiday. Just not very relevant.

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