"Don't walk home alone"

[NoLoveofMine]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40399103

Ridiculous, victim blaming advice to women and girls anyway but this shows yet again how pointless it is to suggest.

Maybe men shouldn't be allowed out at night without an escort who will ensure their good behaviour. Sure, the vast majority may be blameless in thought and deed, but surely that is just as reasonable suggestion as expecting women to never walk home alone?

ChocChoc indeed. Advice which does nothing to combat the problem, is impossible to follow, doesn't work to do anything except victim blame, limit the lives of women and girls and restrict our freedom is still churned out so often yet advice which might actually have a basis such as that would be shouted down (not that I think it should be given either, just as you say it would be met with an outcry despite having more cause to be given).

ErrolTheDragon indeed - in fact more reasonable since it's men who are doing the raping so it makes no sense to seek to limit women's lives in response.

Rape avoidance budget is a great idea! Sadly, we are not even safe in taxis. John Worbouys, a black cab driver, sexually assaulted over 70 women, and initially the police didn't believe the women cos he was a black cabbie, it took a worker at a London SARC (sexual assault referral centre), to join the dots, before he was charged. So basically as a woman, you're dammed if you do and damned if you don't !

Errol, indeed, entirely as reasonable.

Considering that one woman might not be able to keep a man from assaulting another woman, perhaps it would be more reasonable to just require men to stay at home, though.

'dont walk home alone' is fatuous advice. My friend and I were attacked while not walking home alone. They accused us of being lesbians, and we were beaten up.
They just wanted a fight. They couldn't find any men to fight with, and the police said we were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Sadly, we are not even safe in taxis.

The budget should of course cover paying extra, if needed, for a female driver.
(Of course, for this to work we have to ensure that when a woman asks for a female driver, she gets a female driver, and not a bepenised driver who totally feels female.)

Also the advice doesn't work. If your aim is to lower the number of rapes, then it is failing. One in five women are raped. This advice, as some have mentioned, has been trotted out for the last 40 years. It's not really made any inroads into the figures has it. Maybe we should try something else.

Walking is free, healthy and fun. I do not do enough of it. Damned if I'm going to cut down the little I do do.

John Worboys case, if pp haven't heard of him.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/21/john-worboys-cab-driver-jail

Indeed Inigo - that case is horrendous (as all rapes are) not least for the police disbelieving the victims who first came forward and taking no action, leaving him free to continue offending.

Strangely enough I mentioned to my work colleague tonight when we saw a police officer walk past that maybe they are patrolling because of the attack/rape last week just up the road from where work is.

His first response was " what was she doing up there "

(Dark alley/church yard/badly lit side streets )

I said to him she was probably doing what most of us are doing when we walk around at night on our own. Going home.

Most rapes happen by people known to the victims.

People have every right to walk stark naked down a dark ally on their own and be left the fuck alone.

If only as much effort was put into teaching guys not to be rapists as it is discussing about what girls are wearing or doing and how they could have prevented it

Indeed Giles.

His first response was " what was she doing up there "

How abhorrent that this could be (and far too often still is) the first response when finding out about such an awful attack taking place.

I had a moment of feminist angst today and would appreciate your views.

Ds (14) had his new girlfriend here this afternoon. As dinner was almost ready, I asked if she wanted to stay. She said she needed to go home. Now it was broad daylight but I toyed with suggesting ds walk her home. My dilemma was, I didn't want to suggest she wasn't perfectly capable of getting herself home nor did I want ds to not offer to see her home.

I appreciate this was Sunday afternoon and they are teenagers but hey. My mother (who was born in 1929 but always a feminist) used to say a woman should be able to walk round naked and not be assaulted / harassed and items the men who needed to not assault.

So - what do I teach ds in respect of how to handle the 'walking home alone' thing (apart from the obvious)?

That's a tough one Crikeyblimey. You don't want to suggest she can't get home herself nor limit her independence but at the same time wanted to look out for her. Of course, your mother was absolutely right. Also, if your son had walked her home, he'd have had to walk home himself. This would send a damaging message to them both, that she's incapable of getting home and needs to be protected; though they're the same age she would be less independent than him and in need of looking after, which could make her feel not as good about herself (not saying it would do but it'd do so to me). This of course wouldn't be due to you or your son and the intentions are only positive. I'm sure others can give far better advice than I can. What did you do?

Group A attacks Group B and it's the members of Group B that have to change their behaviour??? Fuck off.

Thanks. They were my thoughts exactly. I didn't want her to feel any less than him (in the 'I'm capable of walking home' stakes). I also then struggled with the bit about him having to walk back alone.

In the end (as with most teenagers) just as I was about to offer her a lift home, she rang her mum who dutifully came to pick her up! Bloody teenagers! It would have been about a 20 min walk.

As this 'relationship' is new and I want to continue to raise a 'good' young man, I value input about how to advise him in such situations.

I do think though, had it been dark I'd have offered the lift much earlier than I did. Doesn't help me reach ds the appropriate way to handle the situation though does it?

It's a tough one. I think the best way to raise him is as I'm sure you are doing, making sure he respects and values girls and women, appreciates consent, challenges sexism and misogyny from others when he's able and so on. My brothers are similar ages to your son and that's what I think is being instilled in them. I appreciate this doesn't do anything to help with the issue here though; I see your point regarding if it was dark, though at the same time it's dark not long after 4 in the winter so they'll probably be travelling home from school on their own. It's tough for your son and I can only speak for myself but I'd feel very belittled and infantilised by such an offer (not by him in this case as I'd know he was being decent but it'd just get to me). I won't advise because others are far better placed than me to!

Bloody teenagers!

Less of that please

What I always find about the 'let's tell women to be careful' brigade is that they're not very keen to say why women should be careful. If it's suggested that men are a threat to women, that's not acceptable, it's too harsh, it's man-hating. Apparently women have to be careful because of some unnamed threat that we can't do anything about or even really talk about.

No woman needs to be told she's in danger. Men teach girls that nice and early.

Very true Sparrowhawk. Name the issue and it's man hating yet telling women they should limit their freedom and independence because of the threat which can't be named is still far too accepted.

I am a human being. I have a fucking goddamn right to walk down a dark street. Don't fucking tell me not to. EVER.

Men DO NOT have a right to terrorise women, threaten them, restrict their movements and rape them.

If you are a woman you do not have to be careful. You have to be fucking furious that this is still the world we're living in.

@Crikey: Unless you live in a dangerous area, I think walking home in daylight is fine. It is a risk I myself would take. Apparently, your son's girlfriend can handle things just fine herself, which is good.
You driving her home would also be safer than your son walking her home. You trust your son, but another hypothetical boy she might date might not be so safe to be with, so from a purely statistical point of view, you are a safer person.

Statistically, her boyfriend is more likely to assault a girl than a random stranger.

What I always find about the 'let's tell women to be careful' brigade is that they're not very keen to say why women should be careful

Unwillingness to name male violence, it's an epidemic.

If you pay attention, it is really everywhere. I recently read a text about domestic violence. From a feminist source. "Women who experience domestic violence", "women who flee from domestic violence" ... the fact that "domestic violence is caused by men" was mentioned, but seriously, why not just say "men who beat up women" instead of making it sound like the domestic violence just happens to women like, say, a heart attack?

I appreciate this was Sunday afternoon and they are teenagers but hey. My mother (who was born in 1929 but always a feminist) used to say a woman should be able to walk round naked and not be assaulted / harassed and items the men who needed to not assault

Unless you live somewhere awful or in the middle of nowhere it would not have occurred to me to that a 14 year old of either sex needs to be accompanied home on a Sunday afternoon.

Unfortunately incidents do happen. Teenage girls are regularly harassed on the street. There are also incidents such as this, far from isolated: www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/15339336.Mother_speaks_out_about_sex_attacker_who_assaulted_her___39_brave__39__daughter_on_Twickenham_bus/ (and was in a pleasant area - these things happen in all kinds of areas). Plus I'll never forget when I was also 14 the murder of a 14 year old girl in the middle of a summer afternoon in a very nice and tranquil area purely because she was a girl.

TheSparrowhawk your last post also articulates what I feel perfectly. I am furious.

VestalVirgin

Unwillingness to name male violence, it's an epidemic.

If you pay attention, it is really everywhere. I recently read a text about domestic violence. From a feminist source. "Women who experience domestic violence", "women who flee from domestic violence" ... the fact that "domestic violence is caused by men" was mentioned, but seriously, why not just say "men who beat up women" instead of making it sound like the domestic violence just happens to women like, say, a heart attack?

^^This.

I have started to mentally name it as male violence, every time.

If DH happens to mention a news report, I will nod and say yes male violence. At first he looked at me as if I had said something quite controversial. But the sheer number of times it's happening is making him see it too.

But that doesn't happen unless you say it out loud and name it.

It's like a nasty little secret that many people don't see.