Male feminism

[HardToFindAUsername]

Hi. I'm a bloke (sorry) with 2 sons and a daughter.
I want the best for each of them, obviously.

I've got into an internet bubble where I'm seeing a lot of anti-"rabid"-feminist messages, and I'd like to check whether it's un-balancing my views. I've had a read of a few threads on here and I'm actually worried that my views may perhaps be correct.

Before you read on can I stress that this is a genuine attempt to understand. My current views probably aren't yours, but aren't meant to offend.

As things stand this is what I perceive as feminism:

1. There's a lot of "this [obscure example of something being male] is yet more misogyny". Just because a crash test dummy is male doesn't demonstrate a hatred of women.
2. There's lop-sided comparisons of "the advantages of being male" to the "disadvantages of being female". Pay gap is a good one, I see this as mostly a "personal career preference" issue (and perhaps a "parent penalty")
3. There's loads of generalised criticism, lots of which isn't answerable in the same sound-bite way the criticism is voiced. It comes across to me as wanting to complain, not wanting to improve things.
4. There's no single version of feminism, so some or all of the above may not apply to any individual.

I'm fully expecting some abuse here, which I can take fine, but I am genuinely trying to work out if I should be (more of) a feminist for my daughter's sake, or if the "issues" are being blown out of proportion.

I dont really know what might persuade me (if you even care to do so, I'm not assuming you do/should) - maybe there's an actual situation where (if some part of feminist agenda was in effect at the time) you can describe how your life would be different?

This is a genuine attempt to understand, and whilst I may be challenging I promise to listen and try to see any points you put forward.

Fire away

Some great posts there Eolian.

The "neutral" position is never neutral though is it? It is generally the position that society holds (or more often worse). And as we live in a patriarchal, racist, homophobic, ableist society...

Sylvia good point, girl guiding UK have done a lot of surveys and research into how life is for girls in UK at the mo

This thread, has made me feel better about the chance at a better future for my DD. What's more it has allowed me to see more than I realised. Thank you!
I hope more people are like you every generation so we can have a truly equal Society.

Read most of thread and this matter comes up fairly frequently over the years.

Am to quizzical about the supposed 'neutral' position on womens rights. Which basically means 'I'm okay with the current arrangements.'

Dad you seem lovely and your daughter will thrive with a father like you looking out for her. As the daughter of a feminist father I can tell you how important it is to have that support.

Wow. I know YouTube comments are awful but read the comments on that Australian advert.

venusinscorpio

I know. Comments starting with 'feminist retards' and then maintaining the only reason men beat up women is because women start it. The 'Why do you make me hit you' mindset is alive and well and is getting very pissed off that no one buys it.

Women saying no and standing up for their rights make some men so angry. How dare we?

The video was excellent but I did think they should have disabled comments for it due to how sadly inevitable it was nonsense like that would be posted.

Datun your final line is something I've noticed so often - it's quite something how enraged it makes some men. Any campaign or even just a woman standing up against misogyny met with such vicious disdain.

Datun your final line is something I've noticed so often - it's quite something how enraged it makes some men.

YY.

I'm laughing that women being mean to their friend about make up is 'feminist extremism.' God I wish that was all I had to worry about with my DD.

'Feminist extremists' might be rude to her. Men might rape her. I think I'm going to worry a bit more about one of those things than the other.

Honestly, OP, I'm stunned that you apparently "don't see it" regarding sexism. STUNNED. It's there every moment of every day, and you and your sons are benefiting from it at the cost of your daughter and her mother. And that's with the knowledge that both the women you presumably love have it a million times better than women and girls in the undeveloped world.

In some places, your daughter wouldn't even be born because her mother would've been pressured to abort her because girl babies are seen as useless. In others she would've had her external genitalia cut off without anesthetic in order to deprive her of sexual pleasure for life. Yet in others she would've been forced into child marriage to a grown man. On a milder scale, in some regions she would be expected to wear high heels all the time, which would break her body down and may even cripple her later in life. In others she could die because of being denied an abortion (Google the recent Irish case).

On the other hand - you and your sons would be just fine anywhere you could've been born at any point in history. None of those would be applicable to you and you would still be benefiting from those things being done to women.

Ask yourself, OP: do you regard your body as a mini-management project? Do you constantly stress about how on earth to find the time, energy and pain tolerance to remove hair in the myriad different places that it is expected for women? Do you resent having to do it? Do you suffer severe self-consciousness when it's impossible for you to do it and anger that society doesn't give a fuck about your legitimate reasons and still judges you? Do you plan this around the clothes you wear? Do you welcome the cold months because that burden is off you for a bit because of winter clothes? Do you dread the amount of hair removal work you'd have to perform on your body in order to have sex, while your partner has to do none or marginal? Do you dread the self-consciousness due to being unable to do it because of a health problem? Does that kill your sexy mood? Does the whole thing make you feel like your body is public property?

Does your head hurt now? Welcome to a woman's world on one of the smallest, most innocuous issues of womens' problems resulting from the patriarchy. Now just imagine the rest, which are a zillion times more severe. Do you feel like your head is about to explode?

#I should patent this as a psychological exercise#

Ask yourself, OP: do you regard your body as a mini-management project? Do you constantly stress about how on earth to find the time, energy and pain tolerance to remove hair in the myriad different places that it is expected for women? Do you resent having to do it? Do you suffer severe self-consciousness when it's impossible for you to do it and anger that society doesn't give a fuck about your legitimate reasons and still judges you? Do you plan this around the clothes you wear? Do you welcome the cold months because that burden is off you for a bit because of winter clothes? Do you dread the amount of hair removal work you'd have to perform on your body in order to have sex, while your partner has to do none or marginal? Do you dread the self-consciousness due to being unable to do it because of a health problem? Does that kill your sexy mood? Does the whole thing make you feel like your body is public property?

I doubt he does. Do you? I don't. I don't know any women who match that description.

Hi OP, lots of points have been made here and it's encouraging you want to understand more. A couple of points if I may? Appreciating you may have hit your limit.

1. the pay gap appears in research before woman leave for child care choices (is this a choice though? If we want society to keep moving forward, or should it only be unemployed people having children?) and.. 2) if you want to read up of feminism in general, can I recommend Caitlin Moran, readable, funny and great for a modern understanding esp if you've a daughter.

Overall though, woman do tend to get a shittier deal, in the uk two deaths a week to domestic violence - I don't know of a peril that effects men like that without lots of noise, on average worse jobs, more likely to be a victim of crime, disproportionately victims of violent crime, woman who don't have career breaks for children still aren't getting to board level in the same number of men.....It's really hard to see how this can go on accidentally or unnoticed. It feels more likely that those in the position do change things don't have it at the forefront of their priorities. Why not? Woman are 51% of the global population. The info I'm putting above is is the west, where woman 'have it best'.

You say that you have a son and a daughter. Look up the statistical chances of their earnings over a lifetime, there chances of experiencing violent crime, death in their own home, etc and ask yourself if you are happy with these differences, and you may answer some of your own questions.