Why so much trans bashing on MN?

[leighdinglady]

I just don't get it at all.

Why do I see threads every day on MN which spout hatred and fear about the trans community. What's everyone so scared of??? Literally hundreds of posts of people talking like trans women are somehow a threat to biological women.

For a social platform which is meant to be friendly and approachable, this really stinks.

OlennasWimple this whole thing about people being able to self-identify without doing anything else is very new. Everything is open to abuse but that does not mean most people abuse it. For those who are scared or find it difficult to accept themselves we should not be putting obstacles in their way to feeling accepted and "normal".

As for fetishes... one person does not mean everyone who is trans feels that way. Unfortunately someone such as the OP on that thread are far more likely to be visible than those who can just get dressed normally in the morning due to the nature of the internet. "Oddities" or whatever you want to call them are hugely overrepresented on the internet. If you look at any porn site you might assume that the entire population had fixations about anal sex or having sex with plumbers but it's not a representative sample or reflection of the general population.

FerretsAreFeminists what is the issue then, according to you?

what is the issue then, according to you?

It has already been explained several times throughout the thread, including by a transwoman in her post at 16:01.

one person does not mean everyone who is trans feels that way

Nobody has said that it does.

However how are we supposed to tell the difference between a harmless genuine transwomen and someone with a fetish?

suzie, what about my genuine difficulty in accepting a smear test from someone with a penis? Should I just put up and shut up? Is my right bodily autonomy not equal to someone else's right to self identification?

Suzie wrote " I can see how... growing a beard, having a penis, or developing muscles might be awful for a transwoman."

And yet the vast majority of MTT keep their penises, and some demand that lesbians should accept them as 'ladypenises.'

Doesn't really fit the narrative, does it?

Suzie perhaps you could explain the difference between fetishists and transwomen.

FerretsAreFeminists if you're not going to answer my question. I've already said the people looking to abuse their position are few and far between and it is unfair to assume that everyone is out to get you in some way.

AmeliaLion no but I seriously can't imagine a time you couldn't request a certain member of staff to do something like that. I personally couldn't give a flying fuck who looks up my fanny so long as they're medically trained to do whatever they're doing. I would happily let a male nurse do a smear for me in the same way I won't care if I need an obstetrician and they happen to be male when I give birth and had a male gynaecologist do a colposcopy when I needed one a few years ago.

IamalsoSpartacus I'm pretty sure most keep their penis because they are scared of having major surgery or they just don't feel the need in the end. some demand that lesbians should accept them as 'ladypenises', again I suspect this is a tiny minority of male to female transitioners.

I can see why the OP has gone. This has become like many of the other threads I've read where anyone not declaring most transpeople as abusive or out to get women gets shouted down. I acknowledge there are problems but a lot of what's on here amounts to no better than the ridiculous "gay fear" that went on until very recently, and might still be in some circles.

kua Seriously?

kua if you're that confused then Google is free and easy to use.

So Suzie how exactly are we supposed to tell the difference between a harmless genuine transwoman and an autogynephile?

By this logic, the majority of men are safe around children. So we should not express any concerns about any men being around children in any context until something has actually happened to a child. And then we can act.

We are already well past that point, and women have been harmed. Now what?

if you're not going to answer my question.

Your question has already been answered several times.

Google lead me to my question. There is no answer so I am asking you.

I think you are coming at this from a place of kindness, Suzie, but do you really not think that there should be any obstacles at all placed in the way of men who wish to access women's spaces?

I agree that we need to be careful not to over-estimate the importance of a few threads on the internet, but there are lots and lots and lots of these out there once you start looking (and it's not just the OP then a few people saying, no, it's just you - lots of the other posters had experienced getting an erection just from wearing female clothes). Lots of TRAs deny that AGP even exists, despite the evidence to the contrary

suzie, so which is it? You can't imagine caring (and by extension I shouldn't) or you can't imagine it happening? I am happy to discuss both, but I only want to discuss one aspect at a time as they become very intertwined if we aren't careful.

some demand that lesbians should accept them as 'ladypenises', again I suspect this is a tiny minority of male to female transitioners.

It's some of the most vocal transactivists. And they are listened to by policy makers. There aren't many brakes on this. It's becoming difficult to be known as a lesbian who is only attracted to women. Lesbian spaces and groups are under threat. Lesbian events have been closed down.

So in the trans org CPS pack for schools you had a definition of a lesbian being illustrated with the example of having their cock sucked. It's appalling homophobia.

Suzie - the problem with your response to Amelia's fear about having a male HCP for an intimate medical examination is that had the proposed legislation gone through, she would have been able to request a female HCP but if they turned out to be someone who looked like Danielle Muscato or Alex Drummond (bearded men "expanding the bandwidth of being a woman") but who self-identified as female she would not be able to turn them away without creating a lot of fuss, the possibility of having treatment withheld / withdrawn and being told that she is the person with a problem

Do you not understand why that could cause concern?

DJBaggySmalls that's not the logic of what I said at all. People who want to abuse other people will find a way to do it regardless. Yes we should safeguard those who are vulnerable but to put a whole group of people into the "abusive and dangerous" box actually makes it harder to do said safeguarding. And women abuse children as well. So should we say that everyone is capable of abusing children and that no-one should ever have any contact with them?

How exactly are we supposed to tell the difference between a harmless genuine transwoman and an autogynephile? Talking to them perhaps?

No-one has taken up my points about the internet not being representative of the general population and neither are the people who shout the loudest. I've seen some ridiculous things on the internet but it doesn't mean I believe everything I read or think that's how the world works.

No-one has taken up my points about the internet not being representative of the general population and neither are the people who shout the loudest. I've seen some ridiculous things on the internet but it doesn't mean I believe everything I read or think that's how the world works.

Actually, I did thanks.

You are incredibly naive. Fine. But don't expect other people to join you in it.

No-one has taken up my points about the internet not being representative of the general population and neither are the people who shout the loudest

But it's those people who are shouting the loudest who are getting laws and policies changed.

Just look at the trans CPS pack for schools.

I made exactly that point, which she has ignored.

Venus - upthread you asked a question about legislative change. just to return to it, I believe that changes to the GRA would need primary legislation but I'll check it out over the next few days.

Thanks Olenna, interested in the answer. We don't want to be caught out on that.