Why so much trans bashing on MN?

[leighdinglady]

I just don't get it at all.

Why do I see threads every day on MN which spout hatred and fear about the trans community. What's everyone so scared of??? Literally hundreds of posts of people talking like trans women are somehow a threat to biological women.

For a social platform which is meant to be friendly and approachable, this really stinks.

Thanks (gulp).

I'll advise her to stay well clear as far as possible.

Her sister didn't have this aspect to contend with (but came home from 6th form telling us that we were oldfashioned bigots for not understanding how many new genders there were, and how important it was to recognise people's fluid identity, etc etc).

Datun The transwoman who answered those questions has won a human rights award and a youth leadership award (as well as being a sex theorist- whatever that is).

Can anyone fail to notice how different it is for heterosexual men and lesbians when it comes to whether they want to have sex with transwomen or not?

I have not heard any instances of straight men who don't want to have sex with transwomen being shamed, bullied or coerced into changing their minds. No one is policing or monitoring or labelling them or their sexuality. They only seem to go after the group that's already vulnerable and relatively less powerful.

OlennasWimple
Interesting links. I googled and found a few transwomen in UK politics at one level or another. And no transmen as far as I could tell. But would be happy to be proved wrong on that.

Like you, not surprised at this pattern. But saddened.

Transwomen will be counted as women in statistics on women politicians. Presumably allowed to join all-women shortlists for selection. Allowed to speak as women on women's issues.

Loitering it's dreadful that your DD is going to have to contend with this on top of all the regular homophobia that's still around. I'm afraid I'd agree that at the moment the best thing she can do is just try and keep her head down, although it must be so difficult when feminist societies and LGB groups have all been taken over by those in the cult of Trans.

There's a young woman who posts on here who has to bite her tongue a lot in RL and welcomes the chance to speak her mind freely here. Your DD might consider that as an option if sixth form does turn out to be a hostile environment for her; this is one of the few places where women can actually say the things that need to be said.

We are going to need a full on underground resistance movement sooner or later, the way things are going.

WithinTent - I agree with Datun, try and find strategies for you DD to stay out of discussions wherever possible. I think the fight needs to be placed at the feet of us gnarly old lot, who've had enough time to deprogramme our "give a shit" programming.

"To put it another way; if you fall in love with a woman who is caring and kind and funny and beautiful and smart, and then discover she has a penis and you are no longer interested because of that alone or no longer see her as a woman, yes, that is transphobic and shitty."

Or maybe you are no longer interested because someone who will hide such a fundemental part of themselves, and undoubtedly have to tell deliberate lies to maintain the fiction, immediately strikes you as someone who you cannot trust, and with whom you do not want to share the fundemental parts of yourself, as it will be such an unequal relationship? A relationship based on lies is no relationship at all.

Just got into a virtual argument with a transactivist and their loyal supporters over the casual use of the prefix 'cis'. Got so embroiled in it I burned my chips. Have come to seek sanctuary here. brrr, it's cold out there! I think I'll block them on FB because I just can't be doing with it.

Indeed, Where.

The same as if you fall in love with a wonderful woman who subsequently admits that they are married. Or has three kids. Or has a fetish that you don't share. Or has a disgusting personal habit. Or is an alcoholic who refuses to seek treatment. Or all sorts of things that mean that they aren't really the person you thought that they were when you first met them.

Interesting links. I googled and found a few transwomen in UK politics at one level or another.

I think this is why it seems to have been difficult to get many MPs willing to listen to us when we started to write to them a few months back. We're talking to people who quite possibly are secret APG/trans/who may have these kinks. We're never going to get anywhere if that's the case. We are trying to talk yo the very people who oppose us. No wonder it's all going through the political system under the radar.

Or, I guess, if you find they vote Conservative, hate pets, have a row of pink fluffy teddies on the bed or are staunch vegans.

Thanks all. I suppose all I can do is help her stay away from the fray till she's older and more assured in herself.

A little late to this, but I'm reeling from the Q&A on the previous page and the efforts to eradicate the concept of women by insisting that any term other than 'cis' includes MTFs. We're being demoted to a subsection of a subsection.

Talking I have not heard any instances of straight men who don't want to have sex with transwomen being shamed, bullied or coerced into changing their minds.

Also doesn't seem to be much regarding gay men or straight women being expected to sleep with FtT... Funny, that.

Where Or maybe you are no longer interested because someone who will hide such a fundemental part of themselves...

Exactly. I'd probably not be able to be with someone with very different politics and life outlook, which certainly includes trans ideology!

And comparing it to race.... if I decided I never wanted to sleep with a black man on principle, it might be racist but it's still ultimately my decision. I support the right of any woman to refuse to sleep with any man for any reason (even if I don't agree with the particular reason).

More to the point, if someone didn't want to sleep with me because I'm white/fat/thin/ginger/have an 'H' in my name, vote labour, etc... then what kind of hollow irrelevant victory would it be to persuade them to? For a start, I wouldn't want to sleep with them. Secondly, it's hardly going to stop them being racist/sizeist/gingerist/letterist is it? It's wouldn't be the most pressing issue in related activism.

It would only make sense if I didn't view the other person as a human being enough to care about their personality/views, if my main concern was having sex with whomever I fancied, not activism, and if I counted brow-beating someone into sex as a victory...

I agree with everyone who has posted after my post. Not wanting to sleep with someone with a penis is the right of every homosexual woman.

Deciding that it is prejudiced, transphobic, or just plain wrong is homosexual conversion.

Do I have to check my privilege or examine my motives for not wanting to sleep with another woman?

Nah, mate. Fuck off with that shit.

Sorry, I meant to say your fucking sexist, homophobic, predatory, rapey, coercive, male entitlement to sex, shit.

MtT mostly talk about dating/sexual preferences and access to women's spaces. It's all I've seen spoken about at any length - not homelessness, not employment discrimination, not pay, not male violence (except in an attempt to access female spaces), and only healthcare in how the use of pronouns and sex "excludes" them.

So it's who complain that women won't sleep with them. What a huge surprise

Not wanting to sleep with anyone with a penis is the right of every woman full stop. And that's what enrages TRAs and MRAs

Twunk

Absolutely agree. I'm sick to death of how they are the most marginalised, put upon, discriminated people on the fucking planet. But I see no marches, no campaigns, no lobbying for all the things they feel they are discriminated over, other than the fact that they cannot colonise women.

Good point Datun. Why aren't they marching, campaigning, lobbying for trans rights? All I see is a stealthy takeover of women's safe spaces.

All I see is a stealthy takeover of women's safe spaces.

It's a validation. But can only be achieved by violating women's boundaries.

They know full well that women object, but don't care, so that's the solidarity out the window.

You can't demand to be validated as women on one hand and then do the exact opposite of what most women want. Then still claim to be the very essence of womanhood and threaten abuse when women disagree!

Learnt a new type of gaslighting (I think). It's called SeaLion - it's the way that I see most transgender people argue, which totally frustrates me, with out me understanding why. Then I saw this comic and the penny dropped for me. Also, violating women's space may not be the ulterior motive, but Datun is right that validation is the most important and precious part of being transgender, otherwise the compromises would be accepted (ie separate from women but gender neutral spaces), instead of tantruming that this is not good enough for their delusion.
Anyway, I thought this comic strip really helped me understand the frustrations with discussing these issues with the TRA and indeed any SJW.
I Hate Sealions

Here's a better explanation of sealioning.
www.quora.com/What-is-sealioning

MightyMikey

I'm not saying a violation of women's spaces is the primary objective (although I definitely think it is for some). But when your validation is conditional upon the violation of women's boundaries, yet you fail to acknowledge that, the twin motivations become so blurred as to be interchangeable.

And yes, thanks for the explanation of sea lioning. I had been meaning to google it as I've seen it mentioned a lot.

And I've been a victim of it myself. Utterly exhausting. It's like people demanding you prove the alphabet exists before they will contemplate that it is used to form words.

* Datun* Yes exactly - the motivation is multifaceted for a lot of trans, they probably couldn't tell you why they need women's only spaces for themselves, other than it's super important for their ego. Still, the truth is, women budging up to make room for a sub-set of men.

The sealion cartoon is very funny - but not quite right.

It's not that you have to say "I don't really like sea lions" and one pops up.

You could be neutral or even well-disposed towards sea lions. All you have to do is say "let's talk about the concerns specific to land mammals for a moment, the ones that are to do with them, you know, actually living on land" and a sea lion will pop up!

Well yes.

Because sea lions do live on the land.

Partially.

And they are mammals.

How could you exclude sea lions? And seals? And penguins? And polar bears? And walruses?

Don't go off talking about endangered savannah animals, like lions, cheetahs, elephants and giraffes, now.

We haven't finished with sea lions. We'll never finish with sea lions.