Why so much trans bashing on MN?

[leighdinglady]

I just don't get it at all.

Why do I see threads every day on MN which spout hatred and fear about the trans community. What's everyone so scared of??? Literally hundreds of posts of people talking like trans women are somehow a threat to biological women.

For a social platform which is meant to be friendly and approachable, this really stinks.

People know what a woman is. It's really quite simple. There's just a lot a pretence and being nice going on.

Because we are the ones who are nice, don't want to offend and we appease to prevent conflict.

People know what a woman is. It's really quite simple. There's just a lot a pretence and being nice going on.

There really is.

Plus a lot of obfuscation. For example, this push to suggest that women and Femmes are oppressed - ie. that men oppress women because they look feminine, not because they're physically women.

Today 09:18 Bambambini

People know what a woman is. It's really quite simple. There's just a lot a pretence and being nice going on.

I think it's fine beyond that. People genuinely believe there is something to it. The 'born in the wrong body' narrative has taken hold.

Without debate, I think it will remain.

*gone not fine

BMacklin I completely agree with your sister. And think (hope) you're right that many people are just unaware of the issues.

Many people are half listening to the argument and thinking 'Liberal! That's great. I'm liberal too. So glad that people are listening to liberals'.

It's only when we start listening properly that we think 'wait, you're advocating what?!'

Quite nice to discover that I'm a dangerous radical in my dull middle age though

A proud Intersectional-feminism feminist Facebook friend of mine was really going for it on international women's day. 'feministing' really hard, and getting trolled by a lot of angry men. I had to resist the urge to ask what would happen if one of them went away and came back in a dress and heels, claiming to be a woman. Would she still 'call them out on their misogyny'? Or would they magically transform into 'women' she believes incapable of that strain of hatred?

Yes its that they're not thinking properly before reacting.

Unfortunately it's causing a lot of damage is done in the meantime.

It's about being inclusive of people who are women and therefore belong in feminism, but were being excluded and sidelined not about including non-women in feminism.

ChocChoc I too would like to thank you for this beautifully clear and succinct explanation of what intersectional feminism actually is; I have struggled to articulate it (also being quite new to a lot of this vocabulary) but that makes so much sense.

Unfortunately it's causing a lot of damage is done in the meantime

Well quite. I fear for my daughters' future. We seem to be going backwards rather than forwards.

And yy of course to biology being at the root of our oppression and being the only genuine measure of a woman.

sticklebrix I went through the same process a couple of years ago when I first picked up on the trans threads on here. Down the rabbit hole. I really wished I could go back to blissful ignorance and un-know what I'd learned, but sadly that wasn't an option. And of course it's just grown legs in the meantime, with St Caitlyn of the Jenner and Obama's backing for all the bathroom bill stuff.

It's such a betrayal by the people we thought were supposed to be on our side, on the same side as us.

Intersectionality is about how patriarchy can recognise either one form of oppression or another. So the the two types cancel each other out and neither is dealt with.
The term is very specific, not ambiguous, and has been hijacked. The original example was a factory that employed white women in the office and black men on the assembly line was declared not racist for refusing to employ black women in the office.
The system could deal with either sexism or racism, but not both. So black women were at a double disadvantage.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

Thanks for that example DJ you just given me a "light bulb" moment.

Like everything else to do with this words are being twisted to make people feel bad and give way.

DJBaggySmalls

The clarity of your example is startling.

Thank you.

I've been practicing writing. Thank you for your feedback, I really appreciate it

You're welcome. I've noticed it on another thread too. Whatever you're doing, it's working.

I've seen quite a few critical memes recently... this one made me laugh!

I love this one...

And this one.

I've seen this argued begore. "So you were attracted to me - how i look, my personalty. Then you find out i'm trans - suddenly you're not attracted to me anymore. This is awful, illogical and transphobic".

Is this any different to a straight woman and a straight man catching one another's eye across a crowded bar, you go over and get talking, realise he has raging hallitosis/is a crashing bore in coversation/a UKIP supporter/Sid the Sexist and the initial attraction evaporates? He seemed friendly and attractive, but on further investigation, you realise you are not compatible. Sex is not compulsory.... Finding that the initial spark has gone is not misandry.

Yes, and an entitled/rapey attitude toward sex is (shock horror) offputting

Their argument is you can say you're not attracted to penises, but you can't say you are not attracted to transwomen (pre-or post op).

Desperately trying to make a distinction between a penis, and the person to whom it is attached.

Well it's all down to the demand that biology and sex isn't important, is actually no longer a fact as we traditionally understand it. It's now about the individual - if you are attracted to the person in front of you - then body parts or chromosomes shouldn't be important - it's the inner essence you are attracted to and how they identyfy should be enough, not their body. What yhey seem to forget is that someone only gets to that position of attraction/flirting etc because they have already assumed the person's biology and body parts at first glence and all along were expecting certain body parts and chromosomes.

I really don't know how they have been able to spin this nonsense to a point where others agree with it and find it totally logical.

What yhey seem to forget is that someone only gets to that position of attraction/flirting etc because they have already assumed the person's biology and body parts at first glence and all along were expecting certain body parts and chromosomes.

Well exactly. And with a too heavy a dose of common sense to be acceptable, apparently.