Why so much trans bashing on MN?

[leighdinglady]

I just don't get it at all.

Why do I see threads every day on MN which spout hatred and fear about the trans community. What's everyone so scared of??? Literally hundreds of posts of people talking like trans women are somehow a threat to biological women.

For a social platform which is meant to be friendly and approachable, this really stinks.

TransAndProud

It depends what you mean by transphobia.

I think anyone should have the right to a job, despite what they wear. I think people should have access to reliable healthcare. I don't think people should be attacked for wearing clothes considered to be stereotypical of the opposite sex.

So yes, disagreement of the above could be considered transphobia.

TransAndProud - do you actually answer questions, or just ask them?

nooka This is fairly obviously a kid on the windup. Same type of arguments my teenage ds tries on with great glee. Pointless to engage.

It's practice. Practice for when the debates actually matter. Admittedly, trans isn't exactly prompting high-quality debate, and I've still got a few to cross off on my TA bingo card, but it's a good effort.

It's actually very kind of trans to help us out like this - good to have you on board, trans.

Anyhoo trans how about answering my question?

Anyhoo trans how about answering my question?

I don't really understand to be honest but neither do I assume that most people go through all the hassle just to oppress women or to fulfil their fetishes.

All what hassle?

Yes a sex change operation is a lot of hassle but so many of the 'activists' have had no surgery and have not attempted to live as a woman, they just change clothes and declare themselves superior.

Hey, trans, if you don't want to, or can't define "woman", could you please define "trans woman"?

Trans, MNHQ don't allow bullying, and many threads have been pulled in the past because of this, but they do encourage rigorous debate, logical arguments and scepticism. As you alluded to yourself, it's one of the best sites for this reason.

There's one silver lining here. I've learnt that mumsnet hates Trans and will never fight for our rights.

I know you're on the windup but I'm going to ask this anyway because it's relevant to the whole issue. Why exactly should mumsnet be fighting for your rights anyway? Or any women be fighting for your rights? Why would I ever fight for the rights of a group who want to take away my rights? (Not take away my privilege, before you throw that back at me, because women don't have privilege over people who are born male).

"Right. There’s too much cis gender female rubbish here. Lets start with the truth. NO! cis gender women, you have ZERO monopoly on womanhood... You are a fascist."

Brilliant

I called her out because she defended womanhood from a biological basis. That's not in any way acceptable, gender is much broader than that and you should know this.

You know that sex and gender are different things right?

Sex is purely about biology, nothing else.

Gender is sex role stereotypes.

Nobody here gives a shit what gender anyone presents as; feminists are all about gender non conformity. But it doesn't change your biology.

Godwin

"Why do I see threads every day on MN which spout hatred and fear about the trans community. "

If you report it, it will be deleted.

Well you all had a busy night

I maintain that the vast, officially massive, difference between 'sex' and 'gender' should be being taught in schools.

Or at least to the drunk teenagers.

Am I the only one hearing trans' posts in a Donald Trump voice?
Your vagina means nothing!
So many cis gender fascists on mumsnet. Sad!

msrisotto

Whenever transpeople post here they really neatly demonstrate the two categories.

You've got IAmEatingACurry - agrees with women, not the slightest bit interested in women's spaces or rights and is dealing with their gender dysphoria in the best way they can.

And transandproud who wants women to centre transwomen above everything else, is aggressive and contemptuous of women. And not someone I want anywhere near my bathroom.

msrisotto; I don't think even Donald is that misogynistic. This is a level more on par with Saudi Arabia where women aren't even allowed to exist... No womens sports there either, it's just a different method of taking our personhood and opportunities from us.

msrisotto I was thinking the same, bigly.

The mansplaining .. It burns me all the way to the xx chromosomes that make me a woman....

PirateQueenie has anyone actually got any figures of a women being attacked by a transwoman in a toilet, gym, hospital or other women's only space?

There's an overview of sexual offending in England & Wales although it doesn't gather specific information on the nature or place of crime - I'm not sure there is any official collation of this type, and trans status of offender is certainly not recorded. And a major part of the problem is that official stats are now meaningless as any attack committed by a transwoman is being recorded as having been committed by a woman. I'm sure you have seen recent media reports of a woman charged with rape (a specifically male crime), who turns out to be a transwoman with an intact penis.

What we do know is that transwomen retain male patterns of criminality (see here) and a higher proportion of their crimes are sex offences (see here).

So, as Datun said upthread, women have started to collate instances of trans crimes against women. The videos she posted are quite an eye-opener; try also the following:
Voyeurism search on gender trender, specifically this
Threat to women
Transgender crimes list - several good links here
Bathroom bonanza
Facebook - This Never Happens

"Why do I see threads every day on MN which spout hatred and fear about the trans community.

The irony of transandproud calling for the wholesale deletion of the numerous transphobic and hateful posts and ending up having only their own posts deleted for breaking guidelines.

Aww i'm actually quite sad that some of Transandproud's best posts were deleted. Should have saved more quotes for posterity.

Leaving those posts would more likely have a positive effect than a negative one. Any undecideds looking in a thread called Why so much trans bashing on MN? and seeing aggressive posts claiming victimhood being responded to with logic would have something useful to think about.