Cis labels

[sooperdooper]

I'm kind of new to reaching 'Peak Trans' and I had this thought...

So if, as the trans lobby keeps repeating 'trans women are women', why would they need to call biological women 'cis'?

If they really are female there would be no need for a distinction because by simply 'identifying' as female they would be

So they've made the distinction themselves by labelling biological women cis, doesn't that make the whole discussion about 'trans women being women' invalid by their own admission?

Sorry if this is totally obvious but I'm trying to work through my own thoughts on this

It wasn't meant to be PhyllisNights.

It was in response to you using the word vulgar. It tickled me.

This is a similar link to the one you have read, but it's more general. Not all of it is aimed at terfs.

But it's all aimed at women.

anti-female-receipts.tumblr.com/tagged/rape%20threat

WhereYouLeftIt Of course, they're planning to groom girls out of challenging an obvious male in a sex-segregated space. Someone posted a link recently to a pack being distributed to schools, so that schoolchildren can be taught to not be transphobic.

Link.

In this scenario, a ‘transwoman’ enters the Ladies. Two young women at the sinks whisper their discomfort between themselves: “What’s he doing in here? This is the Ladies,” ‘forcing’ the transwoman to try the Gents’ toilets next time. Here, the transwoman is confronted by two middle-aged bigoted male thugs.
The most physically threatening man bangs on the toilet door, yelling “what you doing in there? You freak!”
...
The most insidious suggestion in this case scenario though, is that it was the women‘s fault for not accepting a male into their toilet. It is women’s job to protect males from male violence, by rolling over and allowing males into their toilets. The message is clear: women are responsible for male violence.

The suggested class discussion point:
“Can you say why the person went into the ladies’ toilets and not the mens’ toilets? How did the women behave towards her? How did that make her feel?”

And this one. Blurrinng what it means to be a lesbian. The persecution of lesbians by men claiming to be lesbians is nothing short of scandalous. All of this is CPS endorsed. I can only hope they were not sufficiently aware to the subterfuge going on.

Next, pupils are taught the standard trans activist redefinition of the word ‘lesbian’ in this glossary of terms

“Sexual orientation: a combination of emotional, romantic, sexual or affectionate attraction to another person
Heterosexual: being attracted to people of the opposite sex
Bisexual: being attracted to people of both sexes
Homosexual: originally the term ‘homosexual’ was used by scientists and doctors to describe same sex attraction and behaviour as a sign of mental disorder and moral deficiency. To obtain distance from such medical labels, the terms gay and lesbian are now used.
Lesbian: a woman who is attracted to other women
Gay: a term that is used to describe a man who has an emotional and/or sexual orientation towards men.”

Only ‘heterosexual’ and ‘bisexual’ are given correct definitions. The term ‘homosexual’ itself here is written out, on spurious grounds. ‘Lesbian’ is not correctly defined as a woman who is same-sex attracted, but one who is attracted to ‘women,’ thus allowing the inclusion of self-identified ‘women’ who are male. This subtle difference in definitions is significant; it suggests nothing other than a manipulation of terms in order to justify the coercion of young lesbians to accept males with penises as sexual partners if those males identify as ‘lesbian women.’ Lesbians alone are not described as ‘sexually’ attracted to anyone, a definition which can only benefit males who wish to hide the fact that their interest in lesbians is sexual.

Datun, that link! It obviously been written by, or on behalf of, someone invested in denying lesbians are women sexually attracted to others of the same sex.

TRA have given up on my generation and are gently grooming my daughters instead. In a few years time they won't need law changes, women and girls boundaries will already be nonexistent.

The pack is just another example that makes you think who the fuck is doing this? How has it happened in the blink of an eye? The bias in the toilet scenario is breathtaking, the language in the sexual orientation descriptions is deceitful. Why is there an orchestrated campaign to erase lesbians? It's not as if feminism has been so successful that we've even scratched the surface.

I am deeply troubled by that pack. Protecting girls and young women is the last thing on its agenda.

It is deeply worrying. The language change is so subtle that a lot of people won't notice it.

It's brainwashing.

You don't get to market a ideology to this extent without a lot of money.

All these resources take time to write, people's salaries, the infrastructure needed. Non profit organisations rely on donations. So places like Stonewall - call me cynical, but if they receive a lot of money from a pro trans-donor, it is going to affect what they promote. Otherwise the money dries up.

George Soros has donated $28 million to the cause.

There is a lot of pushing the idea that trans people are the most oppressed in society. But as many of them are white, middle-aged, successful men (particularly the cross dressers, as opposed to those with gender dysphoria) it makes me wonder how many of these people are incredibly rich and are pushing the agenda.

On a side note, it also makes me wonder quite how often the public has been duped in other areas. How many times people's opinion is manipulated without them realising it.

BigDeskBob

If you read what politically aware lesbians say, they are regarded by the LGBT community as being at the bottom of the food chain. Presumably because they are women (again).

They are resentful because they were asked for help and support during the AIDS crisis and aligned themselves with the homosexual community. But now they feel as though they are being tossed overboard by the trans-community which is considered the top of the food chain, even above gays.

Yes, Datun, I've seen it a lot in my journeying through gender critical resources. Lesbians are, as a group, far worse off financially than gay men or MTTs, due to the pay gap. They were a big part of the AIDS crisis, sometimes nursing men whose own families were scared to touch them. They were called on for, and gave support in gay communities while so many gay were dying.

However now the lesbians are under attack the gay community is nowhere to be found. It's clear that a lot of lesbians feel very let down. I've seen outrage from gay men on the Datalounge website but it clearly isn't enough.

Personally, I can't imagine gay men being anything but very outspoken if told they had to have sex with FTTs. I am not sure why lesbians aren't more direct with MTTs who invade their space. It seems there's a liberal dollop of female socialization at play.

It would definitely make a good case study in how to run a successful marketing campaign.

They seem to have so much working against them - Jenner should be a walking disaster for the cause, and Kelli Malone? Yet, they are redefining what it is to be a women and lesbian. Every statistics they use is misleading at best, but nobody is questioning it , or is shamed for doing so.

I think you are right to believe its just a few big donators behind all of this. Even if every trans activist donated to the cause it wouldn't fund anything like the campaign that they are running.

"Lesbian: a woman who is attracted to other women
Gay: a term that is used to describe a man who has an emotional and/or sexual orientation towards men.”"

1. Sexism -- gay here listed as supposedly only referring to gay men. Hence 'gay women' get disappeared again. Along with almost every BBC article on gays (when what was meant was both sexes of homosexual), being illustrated with a picture of two men holding hands. Man and male becomes the default, so not needed when you say 'gay men'.

2. Sexism -- gay men get to have emotional and/or sexual orientation. Lesbians just get to have amorphous 'attraction', hence lesbian sex gets disappeared again (not helped by the many gay man I have met who got confused by being told that not all lesbians use dildoes, and then got the puzzled look because stuff without a penis or a pretend penis isn't sex (obviously!)).

3. Doesn't really deal with homosexuality and exclusivity, hence bisexual get disappeared as well based on these definitions.

Ah well, same ole same ole! At least the old style doctors were honest when they called us inverts, the third sex etc etc. Homosexuality, frankly, is no more injurious a term that heterosexuality. You just replace hetero with homo. Gay/straight and so on.

I got into a real life argument about 'cis' last night. I almost missed what was being said as I always read it as 'sis' as in sister...when it is actually apparently pronounced 'seeeees'

Anyway, I was described as 'cis'. Noone has EVER asked me about my gender identity or anything. Apparently this has been decided for me as...I don't take hormones or have extreme surgeries? (I dress pretty 'blokey' normally, though I do have long hair, maybe thats what makes me 'cis') I wouldn't have even even slightly arsed if not for all the threads on here about it bringing it to my attention. I might actually be a friend (or rather associate..) down this morning as we haven't spoke yet. She did not take well to being told cis is a load of bollocks, there is no need for the word to be tacked onto female people just for other peoples feelings, nor that I am trans according to Stonewall. That I do not believe in 'gender identity'..think its just sex stereotypes + personality. And finally when she continued to publicly argue with me that I AM cis that she could shove her cis bullshit up her arse sideways. Most people watching this exchange didn't know wtf was going on (and this was in a gay bar...you would kind of expect LGBT people to be a bit more clued up on this trans stuff...unless they purposely ignore it I guess) so I explained to them that 'cis' basically means you are a walking stereotype. Like 20 people declared themselves to NOT be cis according to this definition, and the woman flounced off muttering something about transphobia. Which was amusing as there was actually a transwoman in our group at the time who was sniggering away at it all

I am kind of starting to have fun with all of this. Even though I know its a serious topic overall.

I wish I'd been there wanking. The more people get called out on this the better.

I'm having an exhausting debate on another thread where someone said gender doesn't automatically equate to stereotypes. Like, what is it then? I guess we will be back to the it's some kind of internal essence.

Oh! As in Cisalpine Gaul.

That's rather neat.

Thanks HorridHenryRule.

Do we think that cis is a term that younger trans people seem to use? My closest trans woman friend (who is in her 40s & has been trans for over 20 years) has never used it in all the years I've known her. In fact, she has never really discussed trans much further than acknowledging she is trans, telling me about her second surgery & being honest with men about it on Tinder.

The two youngest trans women I know seem to discuss nothing but trans. Constantly telling us to watch our language & seeming to take the most innocent comment out of context and blowing it up to be transphobic.

The constant labelling and pushing people into boxes is, I think, a fairly new phenomenon.

What with the 56 genders and all.

There are far more than 56 genders! Get with the program!

venus

I've PM'd you by the way.

Do we think that cis is a term that younger trans people seem to use?

Definitely seems to be the buzz-word for right on young libfems/trans. Yes.

Also the 2 transwomen I know do not ever discuss trans matters unless someone else brings something up then they are happy to talk...and find whats going on today crazy. Mind they are the people who would be 'truscum' to the transactivists and shouted down as transphobic themselves. Using MN terminology they are old-school homosexual transsexual people, both post-op also. I think this makes a difference. It always seems to be the 'lesbian' transwomen shouting the loudest about ridiculous things such as female penises and homosexuality being 'transphobic, though only ever homosexual females. homosexual males are not bothered by any of it and are not expected to perform cunnilingus of course. Nor is there a slur for men who do not believe trans ideology...'

Yes, it does seem to be the post-op transwomen that don't bring up up trans unless it's mentioned to them in a conversation.

I know two trans women with appearances like Danielle Muscato. They're not living in women's shelters, and they haven't changed their names yet, but they do go by female pronouns and seem to shout the loudest about being PC with trans terminology and discussion.

If anyone is interested, there is a discussion on trans sport in the AIBU sub-forum right now.

The two women in my life who keep using cis are both over 50, but achingly right on LQBTQIASGFKGITUB folx

If anyone is interested, there is a discussion on trans sport in the AIBU sub-forum right now.

The sport discussions annoy me intensely as some people seem to genuinely not see the problem with letting males compete against females. Even on hormones and such males have a advantage just how they are build. The only solution is either trans women do not compete, they compete against the males or a trans category is made. Its simply unfair on females to pit them against males, hence sex segregation in sports to being with

Caitlyn mentioned in an interview recently that the Olympics committee have researched it for decades & now have tests for such things as hormone levels. I'm not entirely sure what I think about that, though. I'm very undecided.

I think the older trans just want to get on with it they are much more accepting of who they are. I think todays trans don't want to be known as a trans woman they want to be called women. Men will never see them as women ever or other women they will always be known as trans ...

I don't understand the fight to be called women they will never bare children, have periods or go through the menopause. They will never have a man say to them when a woman is upset are you on love or I can always tell when you're on your period. The fight from trans women isn't to be accepted by women the fight is to be accepted by men. Thats what I think if I'm wrong then explain away.

Caitlyn mentioned in an interview recently that the Olympics committee have researched it for decades & now have tests for such things as hormone levels. I'm not entirely sure what I think about that, though. I'm very undecided.

Yes they can test hormone levels. However someone who has gone through a male puberty will have advantages such as larger lung capacity and such. So even if T wasn't an issue, males still have an unfair advantage over females