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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Just a thought

227 replies

YellowChicken · 14/04/2017 11:53

feminism

the advocacy of women's rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

Just a thought and I can see me getting my butt handed to me but if feminism is about equality of sexes then should it not support both sexes?
I understand alot of issues in the world directly affect women but sometimes I fine feminism to be used as a big hate compain against men when really it should be bringing us all together and creating a fair and equal society.

Dont get me wrong im all for what feminism is but sometimes I feel that the idea of equality.

An example

I cant say all women do but alot objectify men on their appearance. I seem many people on here talk about "sexy" men in a derogatory way. A crush that makes their "fanny tingle" (yes iv read that) is no different to a guy saying a woman makes his cock hard.
A guy looking at a women body and making derogatory comments is no different from a female seeing a topless guys and making comments about his body.

However there are movements about how men should not look at a womans body and be aroused by it. That is just basic biology

Porn is another example people focus on the women in porn but there are just as many men in porn and alot of women watch porn. The idea that women in porn make unreachable expectations of how a woman should look and behave in the bedroom can be an issue with men in porn. Be it gay, tv or heterosexual.

Who is speaking up for them men?

The idea that women can only be sexually assaulted when I know many males who have been.
Who is sticking up for them men?

The pension age is lower for females, we have the choice of terminating a pregnancy regardless of how a male thinks or feels, we more often then not get full custody of children.

And thats just a few examples.

I often think the true meaning of equality is forgotten.

Right light me up

OP posts:
Original poster
YellowChicken · 14/04/2017 13:39

Given my partner has been heckled wearing tight jeans. Yes I have. Given my partner has been stood at the bar and had a women come over and grab his arse yes I have. Given I have seen a woman go for the belt of jeans and crotch yes I have. To dismiss the idea that these things happens is exactly my point!
Men dont speak out because they are told they are full of shit

OP posts:
squishysquirmy · 14/04/2017 13:41

"And if a women is to get pregnant she can force a male to pay for the child. She can overrule him wanting a chimd. Why not the other way"

...Because the other way would involve either forcing another human being to undergo an invasive medical procedure against their will
or forcing another human to go through pregnancy and birth, with all the very real associated physical and mental risks.

Neither way is perfect, but one is absolutely abhorrent.

Original poster
YellowChicken · 14/04/2017 13:41

If a make doesnt want a chiks he should be able to sign away parental rights and have no responsibility for the child. Women can opt out by abortion men should also have the right to opt out

OP posts:
IAmAmy · 14/04/2017 13:42

Thank you Fauchevelent! I'm 17 and agree the feminist board here is great, it's my favourite place to discuss feminism. I don't know of any boys who've done it but I can well imagine some I've know doing it just for the amount of hostility and abuse they give girls who try to discuss feminism on Facebook etc. I had to just unfriend plenty, they still abused me to one another for a while but moved on to other girls who responded soon enough (I used to debate with them then realised it was pointless). I have some great friends who are boys and challenge misogyny though, including a horrific "list" boys in a nearby boys' school drew up of girls from my school and one other. I'm hopeful I'm helping ensure my brothers don't grow up with such misogynist views, thankfully my dad's been receptive and taken on board a lot of what I've said, including challenging his own potential biases at work.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 14/04/2017 13:42

'That you can even think these things are comparable makes you sound ridiculous.'

And also rather naive given how many men avoid paying maintenance at all and how many more pay only a derisory amount that doesn't scratch the surface of the costs of providing for a child.

Original poster
YellowChicken · 14/04/2017 13:42

Male doesnt want a child*

Damn my sausage fingers

OP posts:
Xenophile · 14/04/2017 13:43

Just a thought....

Feminism isn't about being equal to men. Who would want to be, if, as you say, they have such a poor time of it all and are completely powerless to do a single thing about it unless women give up their time to do it for them?

I work for freedom from patriarchy. Patriarchy hurts everyone by the way, not just women, so men should get behind it the fight as well, but that might mean that the majority of men had to give up their advantages in life, to work to make life better for their brothers, and they just don't seem that interested in doing that.

Yes, men do face difficulties in life, I fully acknowledge that. However, I would never presume to turn up on a men's rights forum and tell them that they need to put aside whatever they're doing and work for women mostly because I have no desire to be doxxed and hunted down nor would I presume to tell men how to solve their own problems. Men's groups who are working on things like IPV have worked successfully with women's groups who have been helping women escape from death for decades, women's groups haven't done it for them, but have shared knowledge and expertise. These men's groups are few and far between though, which begs the question of just how much men want their problems solved, compared to how much they want to slag women off on the internet.

ChocChocPorridge · 14/04/2017 13:45

Tell me, was that woman 8 inches taller, 10kg heavier, and with 1/5th more muscle than your partner?

Given the answer to that, can you understand that whilst both are unacceptable, that perhaps it's more intimidating for a man to heckle a woman than a woman to heckle a man?

If for example, I were to slap DP's bum, I would have to get a very lucky shot in order to cause him even minor discomfort. He's a foot taller and a lot stronger than me, even a playful slap as he walks by can sting.

If we were (and we wouldn't) ever to have a physical fight, I wouldn't stand a chance of hurting him without a weapon. He wouldn't have to break a sweat to restrain me, and would have no trouble seriously injuring me with his bare hands.

There is a physical power differential between men and women that lots of people intentionally ignore.

IAmAmy · 14/04/2017 13:45

Comments are comments they not terrifying

Ok I'm going to go against my own advice to say fuck off. When a grown man in a suit tapped me on the shoulder and told me I'd "tempt many boys" when I was 14 and on my way to school on a quiet road used as a cut through from the station to school it was terrifying. When not long ago I ignored two men shouting comments at me from across the street on a dark evening walking to a friend's house who proceeded to call me a "miserable bitch" for ignoring them it was terrifying.

Again, fuck off.

Xenophile · 14/04/2017 13:45

Men do have an opt out of having a child the moment before they ejaculate into a woman without using any form of contraception. Any adult male, who has even the smallest grasp of human biology knows this is true, and it seems a little childish of them to suggest that they had no clue how babies are made after they have made one.

ChocChocPorridge · 14/04/2017 13:46

If a make doesnt want a chiks he should be able to sign away parental rights and have no responsibility for the child. Women can opt out by abortion men should also have the right to opt out

Oh Lord this again.

If a man doesn't want to have a child, he can opt out by not ejaculating into a woman's vagina. It's really, really easy, takes no effort at all to not do that.

stitchglitched · 14/04/2017 13:46

So do you think a man's right to ejaculate without consequence is more important than the right of a child to receive basic financial support from those who created them? Are you really trying to give men the right to shag around and then turn their backs on the offspring they produce because they can opt out if the woman doesn't abort? And you are trying to argue that we don't need feminism when your suggestion would force women to either undergo an invasive medical procedure they don't want, risk their health with a pregnancy they don't want and leave scores more women and children living in poverty. All so that a man can keep on ejaculating without worry. You are repulsive.

Fauchelevent · 14/04/2017 13:47

Amy that's great! I'm 23 and at 17 i fell away from feminism to be cool :( casual racism and casual sexism was all the rage at my school, and joining in was easier than speaking up :( great to hear you've got some great guys in your year who challenge it. The hardest thing with younger siblings is being the louder voice than all the misogynists around them. I have a young niece and when I lived nearby I had to encourage her to practice self love and not get down on herself for being a mixed race girl amongst all the voices that would say that's wrong.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 14/04/2017 13:47

Too right.

Original poster
YellowChicken · 14/04/2017 13:49

Oh for god sake what if a woman has said shes in contraception?
Why is it the makes fault she got pregnant? Could she not of used contraception?
Why does she get to pop off to a hospital and get rid of all responsibility but men have no choice but to have responsibility?

OP posts:
squishysquirmy · 14/04/2017 13:49

"If a male doesnt want a child he should be able to sign away parental rights and have no responsibility for the child. Women can opt out by abortion men should also have the right to opt out"

The current system is based on providing for the child. It should be based on what is fair for the child - not what is fair for either parent.
The amount of child support paid by the non-resident parent may feel like a lot to them, but it is almost always much, much less than the money it costs the resident parent.
If a man wants to "opt out", do you think the child should be left in poverty, or do you think that the state should pay his inability to wear a condom?

ChocChocPorridge · 14/04/2017 13:50

Why is it the makes fault she got pregnant? Could she not of used contraception

Why was he not using contraception? Perhaps she was using contraception? You are responsible for your own fertility, babies are made when sperm and eggs mix, and if you don't want that to happen, then don't do it.

Original poster
YellowChicken · 14/04/2017 13:51

Why can women fuck without consequence after all they can have a termination?
But men how dare they not think.of consequence?
A man absolutely should be able to opt out

OP posts:
squishysquirmy · 14/04/2017 13:51

"Oh for god sake what if a woman has said shes in contraception?"

Er, use one anyway?
Same as a woman cannot necessarily trust a man who has said he has had a vasectomy.

squishysquirmy · 14/04/2017 13:51

"Why can women fuck without consequence after all they can have a termination?"

Thats not without consequence!

Original poster
YellowChicken · 14/04/2017 13:53

Its not a life time of responsibility either

OP posts:
stitchglitched · 14/04/2017 13:53

I'm noticing a complete lack of regard for the children involved here OP. Why is the man more important than them ?

BertrandRussell · 14/04/2017 13:54

Is a pregnancy and a termination not a "consequence"?

Xenophile · 14/04/2017 13:54

Oh for god sake what if a woman has said shes in contraception?

If a man really doesn't want to have a child, then it is HIS responsibility to use contraception as well. If he fails to do so, then tough, it's out of his hands as soon as the woman's body is being used to incubate the embryo.

Original poster
YellowChicken · 14/04/2017 13:55

There is no regard for the children. Benefits are in place.

OP posts:
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