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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Caitlyn Jenner

999 replies

Terfinator · 10/04/2017 23:44

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

OP posts:
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11
WankingMonkey · 22/04/2017 19:50

Why on earth do people constantly try to make out there have been no attacks on women, in womens areas, due to transwomen. Its ridiculous. there is a long list of attacks that have been publicized, and IO expect there are even more that do not make the news.

Then when you point out that it is false that there have been no attacks, it turns to 'oh, there might have been but lets not penalize all for the sake of a (large) few' or something. Then posters tend to go onto another thread and repeat the lie about no attacks. Its almost like they just do not care about women being attacked as its more important to be 'right on'. Its ridiculous.

venusinscorpio · 22/04/2017 19:50

Who, honestly would care what you do and don't like the look of? You don't agree with posters? Too bad.

venusinscorpio · 22/04/2017 19:50

GF.

IAmEatingACurry · 22/04/2017 19:51

So someone that has been born into the wrong body

I think people take the phrase 'born in the wrong body' too literally tbh. It doesn't literally mean that someone was born in the wrong body or that their body literally doesn't match their brain. It's simply a way of describing how we feel; we feel wrong and we feel there is something wrong with our body but we don't literally mean that we were born in the wrong body. That would be impossible.

should just live a life of repression?

Of course not and nobody has said that.

Not being allowed to use the female toilets does not = life of repression.

It's called having manners and having the deceny to show respect for another human being.

Agreed and luckily for me the vast majority of people are respectful and happily refer to me by my chosen female name and by my preferred pronoun of 'she'. However that doesn't change the fact I'm still biologically male.

sticklebrix · 22/04/2017 19:51

Pencils

Yup, Spack. Never heard of him but it took literally 30 seconds to dig up some concerning stuff. I've got nothing on Dr Jeremi Carswell, the other doctor though.

WankingMonkey · 22/04/2017 19:51

Oh yes, the 'no true trans' argument. I get it. But...how do we separate the safe ones from the pervy ones? You simply cannot. Same as you cannot tell which males are rapists but you know many are. Hence sex segregation to make females safer. But fuck females safety eh...male feelings come first.

PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 19:52

Whoopi Goldberg didn't say anything negative about Bill Cosby in relation to the rape and sexual harassment claims because she was friends with him and didn't feel she had all the facts. Eventually she took some time and changed her mind. People say things all the time that they don't mean.

Caitlyn Jenner isn't perfect! She's said loads of contradictory and problematic things.

I looked over the links and just felt that a lot of it was going to rot my mind. You all have your opinions that won't change, and I have mine. I honestly just believe your concerned mothers and that it comes from a place of love. I just hope you'll be loving and accepting of your children if they turn out to be something that isn't considered the norm. I know I'll love my baby regardless of whether they'll be straight, gay, bisexual, trans or whatever else.

venusinscorpio · 22/04/2017 19:55

I honestly just believe your concerned mothers and that it comes from a place of love.

So patronising and deeply goady. No, I'm a feminist. It comes from a place of caring about women's rights.

IAmEatingACurry · 22/04/2017 19:56

Anything can happen with conception and the developing stages of a baby in the womb.

Again you're taking the whole born in the wrong body narrative too literally. It is simply description of how we feel. We weren't literally born in the wrong body.

PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 19:56

Agreed and luckily for me the vast majority of people are respectful and happily refer to me by my chosen female name and by my preferred pronoun of 'she'. However that doesn't change the fact I'm still biologically male.

IAmEatingACurry, you are trans, and I'm not. I'm not going to try to dispute anything with you. I do find the last part of that sentence upsetting, though. You shouldn't be conversing with people in this thread who are chucking insults at Caitlyn, all the while referring to her as a "he". There are people in this thread that are aware you're trans, that is the height of disrespect to me.

WankingMonkey · 22/04/2017 19:57

I know I'll love my baby regardless of whether they'll be straight, gay, bisexual, trans or whatever else.

I am sure all (or most, I know there are a few arseholes in the world) feel exactly the same.

And yes, my concerns come from a place of love, and empathy for other females. I do not agree with letting males stomp all over females rights. You do. Agree to disagree, fine.

WankingMonkey · 22/04/2017 19:58

I do find the last part of that sentence upsetting, though.

It is the truth though? Why deny biology?

noeffingidea · 22/04/2017 19:58

phyllisknights I'm talking about Goldberg's defence of Roman Polanski. You know, the man who was tried and convicted of drugging and raping a 13 year old girl.
Seriously love, if this is the best you can do, why even bother? You're just coming across as really badly informed, unable even to use google correctly, and, well, lacking in reasoning skills.

PencilsInSpace · 22/04/2017 19:59

Gay people actually are gay. They actually are attracted to people of the same sex (not gender) as themselves.

Trans people* actually are not the sex they believe themselves to be (I know some trans people are under no illusions they are the opposite sex though).

Anything can happen with conception and the developing stages of a baby in the womb.

No, anything cannot happen during these stages of development. They follow a set path in the vast majority of cases and occasionally one of a variety of developmental things can go wrong. Being born in a whole wrong body is not one of those things. Unless you believe in souls or something?

IAmEatingACurry · 22/04/2017 19:59

Why do you find it upsetting Phyllis? Why are facts upsetting? Do you not believe there may be times when biology may be very important and relevant?

PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 20:00

Males rights? Why is the emphasis on men that have transitioned into women? What about women who have transitioned into men?

I haven't experienced anyone trans irl that has been problematic, but hell, some gay men have said and done some of the most offensively misogynistic things to me. I'm not a woman who is just blinded by some trans agenda that the media is pushing, I'm being accepting of other minorities or people that are not as privileged.

cuirderussie · 22/04/2017 20:02

www.theguardian.com/film/2009/sep/29/roman-polanski-whoopi-goldberg

Polanski wasn't guilty of rape-rape says Whoopi, of the man who drugged, raped and sodomised a thirteen year old child.

I am not coming from a "place of love" because I'm a mother, I'm coming from a place of anger about how girls and women are having their hard-earned rights taken away from them.

illegitimateMortificadospawn · 22/04/2017 20:03

I suspect a lot of people would use Jenner's preferred pronouns if Jenner was prepared to give up their membership of a prestigious male only golf club, but that's one bit of Jenner's previous male privelege that Jenner can't quite let go of since transition, despite declaring that they are all woman, have been struggling in the wrong body since the 80s blah blah blah.

It's also telling that male UK hereditary peers retain their titles & line of succession if they transition, whilst poor FTT are still second best females for the purposes of title & inheritance. Hmm

PhyllisNights · 22/04/2017 20:03

So, what do we say about the studies that have been done on trans twins that are identical? Not every conception, development and birth follows a set path. I'm not making out that there are as many trans people as there are gay people or as many gays as there are straights.

DJBaggySmalls · 22/04/2017 20:04

PhyllisNights
I just hope you'll be loving and accepting of your children if they turn out to be something that isn't considered the norm.

I'm so angry at this, you are so out of order. How dare you. We are the ones telling you that mothers are being called TERFS for refusing to trans their kids. We are the ones who accept our klds the way they are, its the trans crowd that critisize us for refusing to sterilize them.

But you dont want to hear it. You dont read the links provided. You dont want to hear about the problems so dont you dare try to turn this back on us.

BigDeskBob · 22/04/2017 20:04

Ftt are men wanting to get into women's spaces. Gay men aren't wanting to get into women's spaces.

IAmEatingACurry · 22/04/2017 20:05

Phyllis what do you think about transwomen competing in womens sports?

What do you think about men who have committed sex crimes being sent to womens prisons because they say they identify as women?

What do you think about the gender identity bill which will allow any man to say he is a woman and he will be allowed access to all and any female spaces?

BigDeskBob · 22/04/2017 20:05

Oh shit, Ftt aren't men getting into women's spaces

WankingMonkey · 22/04/2017 20:08

Males rights? Why is the emphasis on men that have transitioned into women? What about women who have transitioned into men?

The focus is on transwomen (males) because it is them that are prolific in this whole thing. The majority of TAs are transwomen.

Females do not pose a danger to males if they go in male areas. Nor in sports and so on.

The other way around causes big problems, due to males being generally stronger and more violent than females. Nearly all sexual crime is committed by males, and to females (excluding prison rape which is an absolute epidemic). So males being granted access to vulnerable females is a lot more worrying than females going into male areas and such. Also...transmen (females) tend to NOT want into male loos, changing rooms and such as they don't feel safe either.

GoldStars3 · 22/04/2017 20:11

I know I'll love my baby regardless of whether they'll be straight, gay, bisexual, trans or whatever else

And if your baby is a girl, will loving her include being watchful for social messages and legal developments that will undermine her protections and limit her opportunities, and resisting those messages and movements on her behalf and on behalf of all girls?

Or will you figure as long as she's not trans, her 'cisprivilege' will protect her so you can carry on throwing girls and women under the bus (figuratively of course, because every sane person knows that only literal violence, is literal violence)?