Caitlyn Jenner

[Terfinator]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

If gender dysphoria is not a mental health issue, treatment should not be available on the NHS.

It's all a bit cake and eat it, isn't it?

It's not have your cake and eat it too.

I can't imagine what it must be like to be born into the wrong body. Imagine all the stigma on top too.

We don't go around saying that gay people are mentally ill, do we?

Gay people are sexually attracted to people of the same sex. They're not saying they need major surgery and a lifetime supply of artificial hormones to feel comfortable in their own skin. Bit of a difference.

I'm going to ask you Phyllis, if it isn't a mental health issue, what do you think it is? It seems strikingly similar to body dysmorphic disorder and perceptional disorders such as anorexia.

Who says they were "born into the wrong body"? How the hell would they know?

PhyllisNights
I can't imagine what it must be like to be born into the wrong body.
Coming to terms with one's own body can be difficult whether it is because of a mental illness like body dysmorphia or sex dysphoria, being victimised by sexual abuse, or because of a congenital disability or disfigurement.
Lots of these things come with severe stigma.
Why do you save your sympathy up for that one group that feels 'born into the wrong body'?

Terfinator - I've never watched the Kardashian show and those two clips are shockingly revealing.

Phyllis - It's not transphobia. It's about the effect of transactivism on women, girls, and families, in particular the skewed perception transwomen have about themselves which permeates the lives of women and girls to the extent that our hard-fought rights are being eroded. Caitlyn Jenner is a very, very public face of the agenda that is riding roughshod over our necessary boundaries. That's not transphobia, it's being pro-women and pro-girls - a battle that appeared to have been mostly won, but now we have to struggle for our rights all over again.

I don't think there is one.

"I can't imagine what it must be like to be born into the wrong body."

To be fair, I don't think anyone can.

Phyllis I am a transwoman who has suffered from gender dysphoria since I was six years old but I'm afraid I disagree with you when you say gender dysphoria isn't a mental illness.

How can believing that there is something wrong with your body and that you're supposed to be someone else to the point where it causes you severe distress, drives you to self harm and makes you okay with mutilating your body to make it 'right' not be a mental illness?

When I was a teenager I was sectioned because I genuinely believed I was girl and refused to listen to anyone when they told me I wasn't. I really thought everyone was out to get me. Does that not sound like a mental illness to you?

I am now finding it near impossible to find a therapist who will treat it as a mental health issue and wants to work with me to fix that. A couple of years ago I would have been able to find one no problem. Now thanks to the transrights activists who will yell "transphobia!" if you even dare to suggest that transitioning might not be the right thing for everyone or that it is a mental illness, mental health support for us is being withdrawn left, right and centre. So um, well done I guess .

I am TumbleTrans btw. I have just name changed.

I'm a privileged straight white cis woman, what do I know?

Caitlyn Jenner is problematic as hell, but coverage of trans can only be a good thing. Let trans people have their rights. It's not infringing on anyone else's rights - let them choose which toilet they go into and don't kick up a fuss about the NHS being accommodating everyone by saying "pregnant people" as opposed to "expectant mothers".

Let trans people have their rights. It's not infringing on anyone else's rights yes it is, that's the point. Please either do some research or jog on.

Let trans people have their rights

Nobody here is trying to deny us our rights.

It's not infringing on anyone else's rights

Except that it is infringing on other peoples rights.

Transwomen are being allowed to compete with and against women in sport and (surprise, surprise) are beating them.

Men who have raped women are being sent to women's prison because they "identify as women".

Teenage girls are being told that they must get changed with a teenage boy if he says he is a transgirl or 'identifies as a girl' even if he has done nothing to transition. These girls are being told that if they object or feel uncomfortable in any way then they are guilty of a hate crime.

How are those things not infringing on other peoples rights?

If I rock up at the ladies rugby club tomorrow and demand that they allow me play with them and by law they have to let me then how am I not infringing on other peoples rights by doing that?

Phyllis has shown her hand by referring to herself as a cis woman. Enough said.

I have to hand it to the transactivists , they have been very good at getting their message out there and making sure everyone's on board. Women are falling over themselves to highlight how privileged they are compared to these poor MTT.

Sorry you are having problems finding a therapist, iameating,it must be tough.

Oh and Phyliss I don't use female toilets. Do you know why? Because I'm not an entitled arsehole who thinks the world revolves around me.

don't kick up a fuss about the NHS being accommodating everyone by saying "pregnant people" as opposed to "expectant mothers".

Mmmmm..... rather deliberately provocative methinks

You are, naturally, free to identify yourself as cis if you want, Phyllis. However I, and I believe most regular FWR posters, do not identify as cis. More than that: we very strongly object to the label. We do not identify with feminine stereotypes, with the oppression enforced via gender. No feminist is ever cis.

"Let trans people have their rights. It's not infringing on anyone else's rights"
If it weren't then I don't think there'd be any threads here about transactivism. I'd still be hanging out in AIBU and not reading up on third wave feminism (aka The Patriarchy Strikes Back).

Ooh, just looking at the other threads I've commented on, phyllis is miss super-excited to be the first woman to give birth - ever! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a2907753-AIBU-with-my-friends?msgid=68497569#68497569. Hmm.