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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Caitlyn Jenner

999 replies

Terfinator · 10/04/2017 23:44

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4398858/Caitlyn-Jenner-underwent-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

(Yes, it's the DM - because it's one of the only news sources which is balanced on the trans issue)

Saint Caitlyn has a book coming out in which she reveals that she HAS had gender reassessment surgery. I think a few people on here thought that they hadn't.

Anyway, the DM have some interesting pictures which show how trans surgery works.

As always, the comments are very telling... Fair play to the DM for keeping them open!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
venusinscorpio · 15/04/2017 12:32

Stop with the 'real this and real that' and we can all go home.

Totally agree.

GavelRavel · 15/04/2017 16:10

ripples i just wanted to say how much I've appreciated your thoughts and insight on this thread. It's actually encouraging to hear your viewpoint as a transgender male, in the original sense of the word. Your self awareness and empathy for biological women is great to hear, instead of the terrible stuff we hear coming from the transactivists and AGPs. Live and let live without inflicting your choices and indentity on anyone else, as you seem to be doing, was all any of us ever wanted.

GuardianLions · 15/04/2017 16:41

I too appreciate ripples' contribution - as I do all the other contributors on the thread, so many insights from so many posters Flowers all round

venusinscorpio · 15/04/2017 19:54

Me too ripples, it's really good to have your perspective Flowers

sticklebrix · 15/04/2017 20:21

I have appreciated your posts too ripples

GuardianLions · 15/04/2017 20:28

Alright, alright -let's stop reverting to female conditioned type and fawning over the males on the thread - there have been loads of amazing, courageous women who have really put the selves on the line here and although ripples has been brave, and does the decent thing about women's spaces, he also upholds beliefs in gender steroetypes and doesn't acknowledge his male privilege. Don't get me wrong, some of what he said was music to my ears, but lets not forget he (sorry to talk about you in 3rd person Ripples) has probaby benefitted from reading this thread and hearing the accounts of the brave women too.

I know I am coming across as a right sour puss, but I think someone needs to mention it.

nauticant · 15/04/2017 21:42

Alright, alright -let's stop reverting to female conditioned type and fawning over the males on the thread

I'm capable of forming my own views and I don't need passive aggressive shit like that to steer me away from them.

GuardianLions · 15/04/2017 22:02

I don't think passive-aggressive is what I'd call it - I can't face pages of Flowers and gushing gratitude for the male on the thread for not being a dick. Lovely though he may be, it's reminiscent of dads getting treated like heros for doing the bare minimum as parents.

CharlieSierra · 15/04/2017 23:09

It's very noticeable that as soon as a male posts here, whether in a positive light, in which case they are lauded and feted, or trolling, in which case they get argued with, either way they seem to command the attention of the whole board and the thread changes accordingly.

RogueBiscuit · 15/04/2017 23:24

Alright, alright -let's stop reverting to female conditioned type and fawning over the males on the thread

I agree Guardian, it's something I've mentioned previously. I rarely see women thanking each other.

sticklebrix · 15/04/2017 23:27

That's an interesting point, Guardian. Going to have to think about that.

GuardianLions · 15/04/2017 23:28

Thanks both

GuardianLions · 15/04/2017 23:31

And sticklebrix Flowers

venusinscorpio · 15/04/2017 23:45

I think I just recognise that we have few allies in our views, especially among the trans community. It was kind of a solidarity thing. But I take your point.

GuardianLions · 15/04/2017 23:50

rogue
I rarely see women thanking each other
It's a shame isn't it? Thinking about how insightful or incisive some women's posts are and on the inside I am feeling total gratitude - but would feel a bit of a ponce for saying it out loud. But when a bloke says something that gives me a feeling more akin to relief than gratitude, I feel I have to inwardly restrain myself from almost obsequious appreciation. Argh!

Datun · 15/04/2017 23:53

I feel I have to inwardly restrain myself from almost obsequious appreciation. Argh!

Damn that female socialisation!

Datun · 15/04/2017 23:55

It's very difficult to resist. I'm happy to give a whole load of grief to rampant TRAs but a reasonable man not looking for a fight? Much harder.

GuardianLions · 15/04/2017 23:57

I totally get what you are saying too venus we can definitely do with allies (and I hope you'll stick around ripples without us needing to fawnWink) in non-sex-stereotype conforming males.

GuardianLions · 16/04/2017 00:06

Damn that female socialisation!
Here's to that!AngryBlushConfusedHmmShockGrinSadWine..... But I can't quite get the emoji right Wink

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 16/04/2017 00:48

I agree Guardian, it's something I've mentioned previously. I rarely see women thanking each other

Posters regularly thank each other on MN

Datun · 16/04/2017 01:11

I'm not sure we do Lass. We give flowers and understanding. We say good point, excellent post, well said. We often acknowledge the content.

It's rare that we say thank you for actually posting. But we do always say it to transwomen.

It's probably got a lot to do with the fact that they come onto trans threads. Which are often, by definition, negative to trans-people.

I guess we are acknowledging that they post despite this.

It makes it uncomfortable to then take issue.

And although they often acknowledge the plight of women, they still imply they have a pass. Because they're not the bad guys.

They seem nice, reasonable, rational. Which I'm sure they are. It has the effect of producing gratitude that they are, at least, not being aggressively against us.

Appreciation of lack of aggression and a degree of understanding does tend to indicate low women's expectations frequently are.

ButtonmushroomEx · 16/04/2017 04:57

Actually I'd like to thank Bird her posts have been brave and insightful and unarguable.

I hope you're going to be ok. Flowers

cuirderussie · 16/04/2017 08:21

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4415278/Psycho-remake-won-t-cross-dressing-scene.html

More whitewashing because AGPs/crossdressers NEVER murder women. Or anyone. It never happens.

Datun · 16/04/2017 09:04

cuirderussie

It never occurred to me that Norman Bates was, what would now be, a transwoman!

I'm sure Hitchcock knew about cross dressing. It seems fairly prevalent. But I wonder exactly how familiar with it he was.

Was the Norman Bates character a bit of a stab in the dark (pun!) Or was he clued up about the entire issue?

Changing the film to avoid transphobia is one of those things that's going to backfire.

Psycho is iconic. It's going to be seen as PC gorn mad.

GuardianLions · 16/04/2017 09:13

Alfred Hitchcock was a voyeur and a stalker. Wouldn't surprise me if AGP was in the mix too...

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