Nordic Model on the Big Questions tomorrow

[LauraMipsum]

The BBC's political equivalent of Jeremy Kyle is hosting "has the time come to decriminalise sex work" tomorrow morning.

I'm going to be in the audience; if anyone wants to support the Nordic model voice via twitter please do!

Leave it to women who work in the industry to push for laws

Take your own advice and keep out of it then

I take my lead from them. Women who are informed and who know the reality. I give them my backing and support when they come up against people with puritanical beliefs who seek to shut them down

Women that you give money to for sex do you mean?

And that you want to keep paying for sex?

Disagree with you totally there, GEA (or should it be MRA?). Many different types of people object to prostitution, not only feminists.

Prostitution affects all women, as people on this thread have explained. You approve of the ECP stance on this because it happens to match your own totally self interested stance, and for no other reason. You have nothing but your own self deluding fantasy to "support" your argument.

Why do you think people on this thread are puritanical?

You are not doing it from the goodness of your heart is my point

And you could be right (i dont think so but for the sake of the argument) it could be the worst thing in the world to do

But you are doing it because you like having sex with prostitutes

how and many others agree with your views because they are honestly concerned...not because they want to have sex with them

Many prositutes may agree with your views because it is their life

Many women and prostitutes dont agree with you, but thats not because they dont like sex...its because they are honestly concerned

just get a kick out of no strings attached sex.

Did anyone else snort with derision at this?

This punter visitor to MN reveals more than he thinks with every post. Never seen one yet on MN who doesn't post like that.

You would have to be a massive fucking narcissist to describe buying sex from women in prostituion as "no strings sex". This attitude shows that these women do not exist for the punter outside of his own want to wank in a woman.

No strings sex is what people do when they actively and happily choose to have a one night stand or an ongoing enjoyable sexual relationship by two people who mutually want that and are honest with each other about it.

Having sex on prostituted women is about as far from " no strings sex" as it is possible to get. (Which is why decent men don't do it. Not because they can't but because they understand the above.)

FFS

I don't expect a punter to be able to grasp this concept as it involves empathy, seeing women as fully human, having a clue about sexual politics and not being a narcissist who thinks their dick is like really really important.

You would have to be a massive fucking narcissist to describe buying sex from women in prostituion as "no strings sex". This attitude shows that these women do not exist for the punter outside of his own want to wank in a woman.

Seriously. Uh, no-strings-attached sex is something that two people do together. Not that one person does to another one. That is a business transaction, exploitatation, and for the prostitute it's about as far from being no-strings sex as it could be.

I would actually argue that prostitution has less of an affect on women now. With the internet there is no longer a visible presence needed so you and your children need never be exposed to it. Even your partners now will rarely walk past a prostitute on the street (in London anyway). It is nearly all out of sight and behind closed doors. Most of you in towns and cities will have dozens of sex workers within 5 minutes of your home and yet you remain blissfully unaware.

It can be managed in a far more responsible and safer manner.

You work under the perception that it is all about sex for men....Some, especially the married ones it is. Some men though like the company of prostitutes. We admire them. They are strong women who are not intimidated by men and male sexuality. That is why I go out to social gatherings with women from sex work forums.

Some of the greatest characters you ever see on film are sex workers. Yes the Julia Roberts character is a million miles from the truth but you have Elisabeth Shue (leaving Las Vegas) and then Patricia Arquette as Alabama Worley who has been described as one of the greatest female roles ever. These are complex, hardened and strong women and this is borne out in real life. Sex workers are often formidable and very complex women.

I am totally in awe of them.

Oh and that crap cliché about "paying her to go away".

That's the lie punters tell themselves. Yeah cos otherwise they would have women all over them desperate to be with them.

My fucking arse.

Punters don't pay women to go away. They pay them to come near.

This reversal also involves narcissism and not seeing women as real live humans.

You couldn't make it up.

Oh dear. We've had punters on these threads who argue their corner and are simply rather pathetic, but is this the first time that we seem to be encountering a major psychiatric disorder. Gender whatever help you've had via tests, is clearly not working.

I find sex with prostitutes to be more honest than one night stands. I hate using women on one night stands and then having to put them on ignore.

With paid for sex you both enter it knowing it is purely for that moment. No upsets.

More and more hateful comments but hey ho that is the face of feminism and why many sex workers give up trying to engage with you.

There he goes, with a post that demonstrates, as predicted, that the above concept I outlined, a punter does not grasp.

As I've said already and others have repeated your addiction to risks should dictate you prostitute yourself - not to women who would simply stroke your planet-sized sense of entitlement, but to burly men who would like to give you a real risky adrenaline rush by doing only what do to women i.e. insert dick into available orifice and dump surplus bodily fluids.

But I guess your so-called addiction to risk would suddenly stop at that point.

Or, why don't you do what you yourself spelled out.? Go without prostitutes for a few weeks and take the risk to see what happens to you?

"No upsets." You know that for a fact do you? No woman has ever been harmed or upset by you using them as a prostitute?

And this is why we need to criminalize the buying of sex. Because punters think it is "no strings" (and worse with the ones who don't just wank in a woman but use additional violence, etc).

Decent thinking people know that the sex in prostitution is anything but "no strings" and society should criminalize those who don't care about that or fail to understand the ethics of it.

Punters usually try to make out that the Nordic model is concerned with "morals". It isn't, it is concerned with ethics. A subtle but important difference that is usually either too sophisticated and or too uncomfortable for the punter to consider.

Beach I think this is maybe something that you fail to grasp. Not all punters are completely unattractive to women.

In my case I have girlfriends. Women I keep at a distance and see rarely but they stay there and now and then we meet up. I have had female friends verbally beat me up about how I take advantage of those women but it is something that works for me. I would never want to go back to one partner and living together.

I do not have the same moral compass as most people. I try my best not to harm people but yes I display traits of narcissism and I am all too aware of that.

You would see me dragged before a magistrate though for consentual sex with another adult.

You still haven't faced up to a fact I outlined. Even if we take your assertion that abused vulnerable women in sex work are rare (I'd contest this but for now we'll go with what you believe). The more you do it the more it becomes inevitable that you have contributed to someone's abuse.

That is part of life. Unless you are a spiritual person you will just by living cause suffering or abuse to others. By being a landlord you exploit people who have less financial resources. By being an empoyer you exploit the labour of your workers.

We all have choices to make about how much harm we do vs good.

I hope I leave most sex workers with a more positive outlook and more confident. I would hate for any of them to have any lasting ill effects.

i hope I leave most sex workers with a more positive outlook and more confident.

Oh good lord

Not all punters are completely unattractive to women.

Of course they are not

No one has said this..i dont think, im not rereading to find out

Beach I think this is maybe something that you fail to grasp. Not all punters are completely unattractive to women.

Give me strength.

I don't want punters criminalized because I think they are physically unattractive to women.

FFS

You people really have no idea. On the average meeting you do not just get your dick out and start pounding away. You do as any other strangers would do when thrown together. You chat you make small talk, you joke, you find common interests.

Within that 30 minutes to 1 hour you try to strike up a friendship.

Now maybe this is me and sex workers have told me that I talk too much and that other guys are silent and just want to fuck but it is not all just anonymous and cold sex.

It is like a one night stand on fast forward. Sex compressed into a much shorter time frame. Like getting a ready meal as opposed to taking an hour to prepare an evening meal.

This is the society we live in. Instant gratification and less time and energy spent on the process of getting there. Consumerism is the new religion and buying and selling sex are all caught up in that addiction and need for self gratification. It is a social illness but God knows how you people can put the brakes on it

For other people, men and women, we are able to compartmentalise different human activities and cut off emotion driven reactions and just get a kick out of no strings attached sex. Sex with a complete stranger does not always have to be scary.

Believe it or not you're not the only person on this thread to have had no strings sex with a stranger. Exploiting people by purchasing their consent and having them service you for your own exclusive pleasure is something very different.