Jenni Murray "Changing sex can't make a real woman"

[Freddorika]

'Those who have lived as men, with all the privileges that entails, do not have the shared experience of growing up female.'

Brave and interesting article in the Times.

Link here behind pay wall I think

The BBC website are carrying an article about this - in terms of Jenni Murray being criticised for her article. They have included a fair few things from the article, plus one of the tweets India has sinced deleted - the one offering Jenni a makeover.

Good that this is at last getting visible. Bring on the debate - it is so good that someone with Jenni's reach has spoken out.

I hope someone does a round-up of some of the TA responses - that in itself would be revealing.

Why was India tweeting to the Daily Mail? Does she write for them? Doesn't she know that they're deeply misogynistic?

Thank goodness someone has spoken out for women. People claim that gender identity is a matter for the individual and no-one has a right to judge or comment on it. True as long as that gender identity doesn't mean I also have to believe they have switched biological sex. Have whatever identity you want - I don't care - just don't steal someone else's and all the sex discrimination protections that group has fought for. I support Jenni Murray all the way on this. Thank you Jenni.

BBC article actually illustrates the responses as hollow by quoting Stonewalls response after Jenni's description of the Rev and India's response tweet - showing that they're the ones making it about clothes!

Well done JM

Rock on Jenny

Why are all the negative responses to Jenni Murray talking about her appearance as though that is part of this debate?
I am glad she has written this piece.

Not bought the ST for years. For some reason, today, I just picked one up as I paid for my petrol.

So glad I did.

Go Jenni!!!

I bought the Sunday Times today too. Costs less than them having my email address for a registration

'Why are all the negative responses to Jenni Murray talking about her appearance as though that is part of this debate?'

The more I think about these comments, the more incensed I become. Are these people SO myopic and SO dense that they just don't see how tedious, reductive and fucking misogynist comments about women's appearances are?! Just shows what we're dealing with. I'm sure that Jenni has had so much worse over the years and she will be well prepared for it but still FFS. Let's all wait for the ageist comments to start rolling in next

By the by, as another poster said upthread, Jenni looks fucking fabulous anyway. She has her own personal style and she rocks it.

Iv emailed WH in support of Jenni

It was a brilliant article, well reasoned and written. Will email WH with my support too.

Agree

Are these people SO myopic and SO dense that they just don't see how tedious, reductive and fucking misogynist comments about women's appearances are?

Honestly? Yes.

I can no longer watch advertisements on TV because of the number of times that women are depicted with their hands above their heads, showing their armpits and making stupid faces.

I have never seen a women in real life do this... cue India Willoughby to show us how to "women" properly.

Twat.

It's so weird, I couldn't shake the feeling she might be planning something like this during the India interview. Must have been my psychic powers. Go Jenny!

Apologies I've not read the thread, but just wanted to express my agreement with Jenni Murray. I'm looking forward to seeing the reaction of elements of my school's feminist society to this (very much "if you identify as a woman you're a woman" types)...

You're right Venus. Sad times

BBC's FB page has another discussion underneath their own article.

www.facebook.com/bbcnews/posts/10154455699892217?hc_location=ufi

I am actually encouraged by the article in The Independent covering this story. Because it ends:

"Physics teacher Debbie Hayton thanked Dame Jenni for a “thoughtful” article and said: “Socialisation cannot be ignored. I’m transwoman and I get this.” "

So, the last thought is that of a transwoman who thinks Jenni is right. That's a bit of a change from their normal let's-ignore-the-whole-thing stance. I am encouraged.

The trouble is that people are waking up to the issue too late. The law is about to change and anyone who claims to identify as a woman will be able to access any female-only space. It will be against the law and potentially a hate crime to challenge anyone, even if s/he looks like Danielle Muscato.

Please, Mumsnetters, write to your MPs and ask them to oppose the Gender Identity Bill. There is a good template letter and a petition here

Signed.

Jenni is brave and she is one hundred percent correct!!

shiny I've just shared the petition on my Facebook I'm out out as a TERF now (previously only out on a closed group)

I'm not brave enough to share the JM article as it might come across inflammatory with the your not a real woman headline and I'm not sure of my audience yet I'm going to ease into the debate rather than possibly trigger lots of transphobic rants.