Jenni Murray "Changing sex can't make a real woman"

[Freddorika]

'Those who have lived as men, with all the privileges that entails, do not have the shared experience of growing up female.'

Brave and interesting article in the Times.

Link here behind pay wall I think

It's actually something I've noticed a few times when self proclaimed "sex positive feminists" are trying to minimise sexual harassment. A nasty undertone of "it doesn't happen to me, you're exaggerating getting all this male attention, are you saying you think you're really attractive".

Here's a link to the original WEP thread.

For context, this was just after MN feminists realised that WEP were supporting Hudson. It's a bit long, sorry.

The relevant quote from Sophie Walker: "Our trans stance is that we support the right of all to define their sex or gender or to reject gendered divisions as they choose. We are committed to being a fully diverse and inclusive political party. This means we support the rights of women – including trans women – to be treated with dignity and respect, including when they have been found guilty of a crime, and regardless of the nature of that crime.

Tara Hudson has been living as a woman since her teens. She did not adopt that identity in order to receive a ‘softer’ punishment in a women’s prison. She identifies as a woman, and WE stand behind her right to be regarded as such."

Soon after that she buggered off. So there you go. The Women's Equality Party prioritise transwomen's safety over women's.

I wonder if the mysoginst MTT hate women so much is because they are still attracted to women but once they transition they realise neither heterosexual or lesbian women are sexually interested in them.

So is there no organisation out there that purports to support women standing up and questioning this trans activist/agenda bullshit? Jesus Christ, we're so far down the rabbit hole it's ridiculous!

Should we be speaking to women's organisations? Should we be organising our own?

What about Fair Play for Women?

India blocked me on Twitter after the WH episode when I tweeted JM in support!

WankingMonkey I feel soiled too. I read both the Times and Mail online this morning and agreed with the majority of the comments on Jenni's article.
Then I opened my Observer magazine to Paris "I love being catcalled" Lees telling me what Real Feminism is...
Facepalm.

Can someone tweet this thread to India?

Good idea Two

I don't have Twitter but someone should do it

So is there no organisation out there that purports to support women standing up and questioning this trans activist/agenda bullshit?

Seemingly the Catholic church is willing to stand up for females, on this issue anyway. Not that thats the best endorsement :S

Speaking of Paris lees, did anyone go to the event she was due to chair? I never caught a thread in the aftermath

I'd tweet IW but they blocked me after I queried her views on shaving etc

Chest feeding? really FFS!!!!

I've been blocked by two people on twitter today [little bit proud].

Happy to tweet it to India whatever her name is.

Well written article, shame she didn't go into male crime being repoted as female crime but hey ho.

Kennington

But in the Observer article about women has a feature from Paris Lees who says, amongst other guff about intersectional feminism
"But I'm not black, so I listen"

But you're not female either Paris, and yes you should listen

Another arsehole

Even the Fawcett Society, which was founded to push for equality for women says: "The Fawcett Society’s vision is of a society in which the choices you can make and the control you have over your life are no longer determined by your gender, a vision that is deliberately inclusive of transwomen.
Fawcett will remain a campaigning force for women’s rights and gender equality. That is not undermined by us being inclusive of transwomen."

They do say however that “Fawcett supports the legal position set out in
the Equality Act (2010) which establishes gender reassignment as a protected characteristic but creates an exception for women only
services, for example allowing them to refuse a male to female trans
person access to a session for women who are victims of sexual assault, if that can be objectively justified and proportionate. It is about balancing rights and recognising the needs of every service user."

They've gone very quiet on that matter since the Gender Bill was put forward which would overturn the Equality Act.

I work with a lot of trans women and I find them all highly aggressive and male in outlook. The trans men are not like this, they still have female empathy and attitude.
I can understand that people are born in the wrong body but it takes more than an operation to make a man or a woman, there is a whole host of other characteristics that they need to learn, it's a lifetimes work.
I'm glad I don't have to wade through that minefield personally it must be awful and confusing and of course the prejudice from the outside world must be hard to deal with too.
It's probably easier for children to adapt rather than older people.

Anyone been brave enough to post this on their fb yet?

I had a slight epiphany earlier. (Apologies if late to the party!)

I think the reality of trans state is rejection of men and male and what it means in society to be male and a man. Not necessarily to absolutely be the state of woman, it's just there isn't a socially recognised 3rd or 4th state. (Yet). If they argued from that angle there wouldn't be the issues over encroaching and silencing women. And women would be on board!

So it's not "I'm a woman" it's "I'm not a man". There's a subtle difference that matters and is less alienating for Women.

And I'm impressed by Miranda.

If they argued from that angle there wouldn't be the issues over encroaching and silencing women. And women would be on board!

Yes, I agree.

On facebook nooooooooo just not worth the abuse, aggro and unfriending. i only put cat pics on there :-)

it is on mine.I am happy to share the shit out of this stuff, and people message me /speak to me to thank me for raising their awareness.

This on the Guardian too: www.theguardian.com/society/2017/mar/05/jenni-murray-transgender-not-real-women-sunday-times-magazine#comment-94345248

I responded to someone saying why can't people identify how they like with 'Would you be ok with me (a caucasian) idenitfiying as black then?' and had my comment deleted WTF?