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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jenni Murray "Changing sex can't make a real woman"

600 replies

Freddorika · 05/03/2017 08:17

'Those who have lived as men, with all the privileges that entails, do not have the shared experience of growing up female.'

Brave and interesting article in the Times.

Link here behind pay wall I think

OP posts:
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Mrsmorton · 06/03/2017 18:54

Been blocked by Willoughby. Quelle surprise... I just pointed out that JM relresented the views of women more that willoughby does.

Seriously, this is so paper thin that the worm has to turn soon. All the TRAs do is block and ignore those who question them. Do they seriously not understand that this is not the way to reach mutual understanding?

ErrolTheDragon · 06/03/2017 19:00

a "pantomime Dame"

Oh dear. No, not a bloke in a frock, but an actual Dame.

She has given sterling service to the BBC - 30 years presenting Women's Hour, calmly and rationally airing issues - from deadly serious and lighthearted - pertinent to women.

MercyMyJewels · 06/03/2017 19:00

I don't think the TRAs want mutual understanding, they want women to STFU and recognise that transwomen are the ultimate women. Cos they know what men want, innit?

Datun · 06/03/2017 19:10

They absolutely do not want mutual understanding! Neither do they want to be told that they can present as they like, and how they like because gender is socially constructed and we should all do what we want.

They want a hundred percent validation and access to everything to do with women. Anything less will be anathema.

Hence the refusal to use gender neutral bathrooms when there is a woman's bathroom available.

They don't want to be understood. They want to colonise women.

GirlScout72 · 06/03/2017 19:36

Hello folks, so agree with you all, so sick of this bullshit

Just seen on twitter that Jeni got a warning from the BBC, if you can show solidarity now's the time.

I'm FUMING. The only people who don't seem to get a say in what a woman is bloody women.

i also hate how our oppression is denied, they would not quite rightly do that with race or religion or any other topic - I've been listening to journalists all day say things like 'but transwomen have a hard time' - I'm sure they do, but SO? What's that got to do with actual women? I am fucking sick of being treated like a second class citizen.

Stupidly commented on a newspaper link to an article on fb last night, and my phone pinged with abusive PMs, death and rape threats all night, I actually sat in tears in the middle of the night shaking with RAGE. Who are these fucking people???

I'm so done with this, I can hardly be bothered to even be polite anymore. I did read Jeni's comments about greer and think she's only just had a glimpse of the backlash, she'll be uttering 'lop off your cock' like greer before long - I saw Greer speak about ten years ago, and she was being harrassed and heckled by trans activists in the audience then (although in my naivete I thought they were drag queens, which is what they looked like, and had NO IDEA what that all presaged).

My limited experience of the trans cult is its' rude, scary, ugly, domineering and deranged. Those PMs I got, my god they LOATHE us. It's really quite frightening.

I'm so fed up with how women are treated. I'm so proud of Jeni, she took a very calculated and brave move and I hope the tide will turn.

QuentinSummers · 06/03/2017 19:39

Sorry to read that scout
Flowers
I just had a look at the open stuff on Facebook and a trans woman called her a "waste of a cunt". Nice.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 06/03/2017 19:42

Just saw this article in the Telegraph

/03/06/bbc-faces-calls-veteran-broadcaster-dame-jenni-murray-disciplined/?utmsource=dlvr.it&utmmedium=twitter

I find it terrifying that opinion seems to be against Murray in this - I had naively hoped it might have been a bit of a turning point.

Datun · 06/03/2017 19:42

girl

That is so bloody awful. Could you print those off and send them to Jenni? I'm thinking partly for solidarity, but partly because she might be able to disseminate those back up the food chain. Despite the warning, she is nonetheless a powerful woman.

People need to bloody wake up about the censorship, bullying, threatening!

You are very brave. These people are fucking inadequate wankers sitting in their basement firing off threats.

Pannalash · 06/03/2017 19:44

Well said Mercy and Datun

venusinscorpio · 06/03/2017 19:51

My limited experience of the trans cult is its' rude, scary, ugly, domineering and deranged. Those PMs I got, my god they LOATHE us. It's really quite frightening.

It is. Hear the narcissistic rage roar from misogynistic men with a victim complex.

Hope you're ok Flowers

BevGoldbergsSister · 06/03/2017 19:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MercyMyJewels · 06/03/2017 20:00

Flowers Girlscout

I'm fucking raging. But Never Fucking Backing Down

Jenni Star

kua · 06/03/2017 20:00

Flowers girlsscout I'm sorry to hear about your shite time.

The TAs absolutely hate women and just like MRAs (that they are) will attack just for the sheer and utter hell and fun of it. Fuckers.

To others if you post on open FB pages ensure that you have your security settings shut down tight with no telephone number attached to your account and use a secondary email account.

booox · 06/03/2017 20:13

Thank you naut! Good to be able to see it!

girl sorry that's happened to you :(

booox · 06/03/2017 20:18

Glad the most popular petition comments are against the petition!

DameDeDoubtance · 06/03/2017 20:25

Girlscout, that's horrendous. We are tiptoeing around bullies.

GirlScout72 · 06/03/2017 20:31

Thanks all

They really do hate us, how is saying a woman is an adult human female hate speech? They are colonial overlords, colonizing 'woman' like war of the worlds. They know we are right too or they wouldn't have to work so hard at shutting us up. Just like with Apartheid, just like every major injustice.

Plus it's AGAINST THE LAW. We are protected in law. I really really think we need a coalition of women, in business, law, medicine, midwifery, feminists, mothers, teachers, churches (I'll even take conservatives!) and we do like Gina Miller and have the bastards in court. It's pointless arguing with TAs (although hoping a few pathetic libfems saw the light) and instead we go and speak truth to power, in COURT.

We could crowd fund it, we'd need one or two MPs and a bloody good QC but we could do it.

Fuck them, it's sex discrimination, I'm a human being of the sex class female and I am not an idea or a feeling a man can have.

For all the Malalas, and all the trafficked women and girls, for all those girls in dying rooms, aborted girl babies, genitially mutilated women, raped women, battered women bundling their kids out the house with the clothes they stand up in, for all those women being screwed on their pensions, women being underpaid, stalked women, underappreciated women, women getting crap health care, all those amazing brave butch women, clever women, outspoken women, prostituted women, I say fuck this.

I'm sick of a failed TV presenter in a dress (did you ever see a photo of Jonathan willoughby, who died and rose again? Pathetic! And not a Jesus complex at all) and his ilk mansplaining my life to me. Clinging to my apron strings like frightened boys too scared and ashamed to admit they are men and not 'masculine'.

For every woman changing a nappy, cleaning a loo, cooking a meal, standing on the bathroom scales and hating herself, for all those girls in bathrooms cutting themselves, making themselves sick starving themselves, for all the single moms with deadbeat ex partners, for all teh date raped women, ignored women, amazing women for all OF US

I say

Sod this for a game of soldiers.

It's time to go nuclear. We need a plan, and we need some financial backing and we need to fight this in court.

I know that sounds impassioned but I can't see any other way. So much of what they say, everywhere, what news outlets say, is so sex discriminatory, why is it OK they can sit on the radio and say stuff like 'cis' or talk about 'womanly things' - the world would go nuts if people were saying 'I like curried goat and hiphop and I'm fast at running so I always knew I was black', that'd be outrageously offensive, reducing black people to horrible stereotypes and illegal, how come they can do it to us?

Here's a legal guide to how and why we can protect sex segregated spaces, we need some lawyer types to point us in the right direction. notwhotheysayiam.wordpress.com/2016/06/17/a-uk-guide-for-non-lawyers-about-protecting-women-only-spaces-june-2016/

And then when we've won that, we fight for woman, not just sex to be legally protected and misogyny to be classed as a hate crime.

DameDeDoubtance · 06/03/2017 20:35

Hmmm, India has tweeted ArtofDissnet, well known terf, an accident methinks? Confused

DameDeDoubtance · 06/03/2017 20:36

bleugh Art of Dissent!

DameDeDoubtance · 06/03/2017 20:37

Girlscout, magnificent post.

kua · 06/03/2017 20:43

Girlscout Fuck yeah! Im fed up of this shit. Time to ROAR!

MakemineaGandT · 06/03/2017 20:43

girlscout what a brilliant post.

This, in particular, is just absolutely spot on:

" the world would go nuts if people were saying 'I like curried goat and hiphop and I'm fast at running so I always knew I was black', that'd be outrageously offensive, reducing black people to horrible stereotypes and illegal, how come they can do it to us?"

MercyMyJewels · 06/03/2017 20:54

With you Girlscout

GirlScout72 · 06/03/2017 20:56

Thanks! I'm being serious too :-)

The black / race analogy is something they can't answer ever. Or the question 'what is a woman?' (that's what triggered the hateful PMs)

Plus you never hear them say 'well I always knew I was a woman because I'm paid less, do all household chores, gave up my job to care for our disabled child / elderly mother, remember everyone's birthdays and buy the cards,, and whenever I park my car in a multistorey I'm thinking about lighting and escape routes just in case some woman hating maniac tries to rape and murder me' do you?

GirlScout72 · 06/03/2017 20:58
Smile
Jenni Murray "Changing sex can't make a real woman"
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