BMA Advice about Pregnant People

[DaddaGreen]

The BMA has issued advice to doctors that the term "expectant mother's" is excusionary & the term "pregnant people" should be used instead. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4167632/Don-t-call-pregnant-patients-mothers.html?ito=twitter_share_article-factbox#mol-a3f41b20-e5a4-11e6-9817-45bcc625c5e7

I'm a man. Probably the defining part of "living as a man" is that I can't give birth to kids. Can anyone explain how you can have severe enough body dysmorphia to be triggered by this but not to decide to carry a baby to term?

The DM has a critical piece in it today by Sarah Vine. Whether you think it is a rag or not, she has totally got it.

She ends with: "...and yet here it is, demonstrating clear bias and partisanship towards one side of the argument and, with one inane and sweeping statement, removing a pregnant woman's hitherto inalienable right to call herself an expectant mother".

She also talks about how much it costs to have gender reassignment surgery (£29k - although actually I thought it was more than that). Something that will strike outrage into the hearts of many a Daily Mail reader.

Do tell us if they come back to you Cool. They really don't get it do they?

I Keep laughing at Svulvathorpe. I assume Penistone will remain unchanged or is it Ladysticktone?

I might prefer the word 'woman' but ffs, even 'afab' (assigned female at birth) would be better and more accurate than 'people', with the idea that really, any pregnant person could be a man or woman and the implication that there is no longer any such thing as a nameable group of humans of the sex capable of getting pregnant. For all I dislike and disagree with the expression, at least it would be replacing one word (woman) with another (afab) rather than simply removing the word 'woman' and not replacing it with anything at all, which is what seems to be happening at the moment.

CoolJazz

That was a good reply. I wonder if they will respond. I can't quite remember, but I think they also talked about being assigned a gender at birth? (I've read so many links lately it may not be them).

And of course you are quite right, it really doesn't matter to whom they are directing this newspeak. The very fact there is only one transman giving birth in this country is sufficient to object.

Allison Pearson is someone I rarely agree with. However she has lambasted this initiative in the Telegraph today. Calling it grotesque and loopy and concluding with 'not on your nellie, mate'.

She adds "when things we instinctively know to be wrong are rebranded as progress, we should not keep an embarrassed silence".

She has a transgender MtT friend.

The redefinition of the the word 'woman' seems to have slipped under the radar for a lot of people, but erasing the word 'mother' is going to whip the lid off the pandora's box in no mean terms.

Does this mean that we will have to say:

Former pregnant persons day instead of Mothers Day?
Former pregnant person in law instead of mother-in-law?

I could go on but I think you get my drift?

Cool Jazz

Loved this line:
Also everyone who gives birth is a woman. A woman is an adult human female, how do the BMA define woman? You seem to have to great lengths to define trans gender people, could we please have a definition of woman in your literature please.'

Did anyone listen in to women's hour? I'm not sure I can bring myself to listen to it anymore, feeling so angry and despondent this evening!

bbc.in/2l04hmN

If he's a man why the fuck is it relevant to Women's Hour? Talk about have your cake, eat it and then have it again.

Freddy, I mean. The transman who obviously is biologically female and fooling absolutely no one.

seafoodeatit: I followed the link to Womens Hour and wish I could unhear it - very sad day for mothers

I followed the link to Womens Hour and wish I could unhear it - very sad day for mothers

That is a huge exaggeration.The person being interviewed, whose name I can't remember was a precious, raging narcissist and goodness knows what was going on in his head, but it was quite clear he was talking about himself.

He wasn't demanding the term "pregnant people" be used unilaterally or that "motherhood" should not be used. He even said "assigned female at birth" is a ridiculous expression.

In response to LassWiTheDelicateAir

I followed the link to Womens Hour and wish I could unhear it - very sad day for mothers

That is a huge exaggeration.
Why is it a huge exaggeration - I do genuinely wish I had never heard it

The person being interviewed, whose name I can't remember was a precious, raging narcissist and goodness knows what was going on in his head, but it was quite clear he was talking about himself.

Did I make any comment about the person?

He wasn't demanding the term "pregnant people" be used unilaterally or that "motherhood" should not be used. He even said "assigned female at birth" is a ridiculous expression.

Did I state anywhere he was demanding this?

Why are you attacking me for feeling it is a sad day for mothers? Am I not allowed to feel sad?

You can feel whatever you want and I'm allowed to think you and others on this thread are over reacting.

Did anyone listen to women's hour yesterday? They're was another interview about this subject. A trans man who has said he'd like to be pregnant one day. When asked about the use of language he actually disagreed with the BMA advise and said it was going too far. When asked if he ever got angry about the language used towards him, he said it was very important to take into considerat the intent of the person.
Anyway, he sounded, on the whole eminently sensible!

I wrote to the BMA about it and this is their reply:

"The story in the Daily Telegraph is deliberately misleading as is the story in the Daily Mail. We did tell the Daily Mail this before they printed the story .

The story claims the BMA has issued guidance to doctors on what language to use to describe pregnant patients, claiming doctors have been advised not to use the term “expectant mothers” as it might offend transgender patients.

This story is wholly inaccurate, the document and “introduction” they refer to related to a guide for BMA staff and representatives aimed at promoting an inclusive workplace at the BMA. It is not “official guidance” and has not been issued to doctors.

This was our public comment:

A BMA spokesperson said:

“This is a guide for BMA staff and representatives aimed at promoting an inclusive workplace at the BMA, it is not workplace guidance for doctors which is clear from the fact it does not refer to patients.”

Best regards
Corporate development"

That's alright then...

I strongly suspect Corporate Development does not give a flying shit what half the population think of this

it is not workplace guidance for doctors which is clear from the fact it does not refer to patients.”

If it doesn't refer to the patients, who the hell else does it refer to?

If it's for staff and representatives of the BMA, are they telling us that there are a lot of pregnant transmen working there?

Way to backtrack BMA.

What I don't get about this whole discussion is that people's feelings get hurt all the time about all sorts of things: women who have just miscarried find it hard to hear about another woman's successful pregnancy, infertility is horrendous to bear in the presence of babies and happy families all around us, there is horrendous sex-, disability-, racial- and any number of other abuse going on and we are encourage to worry about a perfectly accurate choice of words to refer to a vanishingly small proportion of the population??

The mind boggles.

I shall remember to see and treat pregnant women and expectant mothers and should I ever, ever come across a pregnant transman I shall ask who they wish to be referred to and stick to that. Official guidance, my arse!
And I agree, it is irrelevant whether it refers to patients or people in the workplace - it's the sentiment and disordered thinking behind it, I find really quite worrying.

And yes, the woman's hour clip was bloody depressing.

Freddie freely admitted he had gender dysphoria and found his female genitalia repugnant. He's had a double mastectomy and has been injecting himself with testerone which has deepened his voice, made his body look masculine and given him facial hair.

The effects of testerone are likely to make you sterile, but not always. Freddie is hoping that in his case his cycle will resume if he stops testerone, at which point he will try and get pregnant. Statistically he will be gay, no mention of a father for this child.

The effects of testosterone on a foetus are unknown, Freddie has no breasts to feed with, hates his female genitalia, is utterly obsessed with himself and is in a constant state of distress when reminded that he was born female.

Millions of children are born into desperate situations.

But there can't be that many who prior to arriving in that situation, their mother sorry father, publicises it on the radio, in the media, is feted by their community, given air time and used as a 'poster boy' for everything progressive.

So yeah, it's utterly depressing.

Why the fuck isn't Freddie being given proper MH treatment . Honestly. I'll probably be roasted for this, but I actually do think that it is unethical for some people to reproduce and I put that individual in this category. Certainly giving Freddie any form of assisted reproductive treatment is unethical in my book (including sperm donation) because of the unknown effects on the foetus (just as a starting point).

I think Fred is in a gay male relationship with a somewhere on the gender spectrum male. But I agree if you're gender dysphoric and coming off testosterone is supposedly dangerous because of that, how much more dysphoric is it going to be being pregnant ( bit hard to pass then you can't bind that bump!). Can't chestfeed cos you've had a double mastectomy in the US. Stretch marks and then the child itself will be reminder that at least one of you who looks like them must have had a womb at the time. Let alone how they're going to explain their biological links to the child itself............... Not being called a pregnant mother would be the least of their problems frankly.

I think Fred is in a gay male relationship with a somewhere on the gender spectrum male.

So maybe that person will be the father then? A little better then than Hayden Cross who got sperm from a stranger on Facebook.

If Freddie is going to do the bulk of the childcare I do wonder if his dysphoria is going to go into overdrive with all the women-centric aspects involved. The whole process of being pregnant, birthing and raising a child relies on the support of people who understand it from personal experience.

It's great when fathers get involved, but I can only see misery when your mother hates being just that.

"I think Fred is in a gay male relationship with a somewhere on the gender spectrum male........So maybe that person will be the father then?"

I'm just trying to imagine how this scenario would go down/have gone down on the old-style gay scene............

I could also bang-on about appropriation of gay male space. Will gay mens spaces now have to include not just san-pro bins, but consider the needs of chest-feeding people for those fathers who haven't had mastectomies?

I'm too boggled --- it was bad enough getting dykes in, but gay men having to accommodate the needs of lactating or pregnant or menstruating gay men whilst still acknowledging they are gay men?