BMA Advice about Pregnant People

[DaddaGreen]

The BMA has issued advice to doctors that the term "expectant mother's" is excusionary & the term "pregnant people" should be used instead. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4167632/Don-t-call-pregnant-patients-mothers.html?ito=twitter_share_article-factbox#mol-a3f41b20-e5a4-11e6-9817-45bcc625c5e7

I'm a man. Probably the defining part of "living as a man" is that I can't give birth to kids. Can anyone explain how you can have severe enough body dysmorphia to be triggered by this but not to decide to carry a baby to term?

SomeDyke

Very succinctly if very confusingly put! This whole ridiculous charade has just gone so far beyond the bounds of sanity and reason, that rational people can no longer understand especially as the boundaries/terminology seems to change every other day! Hope I haven't written anything that could possibly be interpreted as "phobic" in any way shape or form because these days it's impossible to know who you might offend! Bring back common sense please

Lets look at it the other way around: on what planet would a chest feeding gay father not be the exception?! And inevitably rouse surprise and reactions of people who struggle to understand.
His experience is so far removed from that of most people that IMO he ought to be treated with the utmost respect and compassion, but I struggle to see how a society as a whole can legislate for his situation without endangering fair treatment to a majority of people.
Nuts.

It's not my place to say that Freddie shouldn't reproduce; being a narcissistic dingbat isn't a reason not to have children sadly. However, I take massive exception to the notion that he's the father. He gestates and births a child = he is the mother. Telling children their mother is theor father is gaslighting and emotionally abusive as far as I'm concerned.

I'm wondering how this child will react to the notion that female genitalia is despised to such an extent that her, or his, own mother had her breasts removed and took drugs to grow a beard.

I'm wondering how this child will react to the notion that female genitalia is despised to such an extent that her, or his, own mother had her breasts removed and took drugs to grow a beard.

YY, Gallavich. Earlier this week I was reading an article by a TW who was described as a mother. I can't imagine how distressing it must be to have your ex (or current) partner describing himself as your children's mother. The DC may be too young to register, but some are not. I know if my DF had transitioned and tried to describe himself as my DM I would have been beyond outraged.

When dear little Stefonknee was hitting the headlines I felt desperately sorry for his 7 children. He even claimed to have attempted suicide on one daughter's wedding day because he had been asked not to turn up in a party frock.

being a narcissistic dingbat isn't a reason not to have children sadly

But it should be

It is interesting to think about what it would be like for the child/growing teenager.
I do think that all children consider whatever they grow up with as 'normal' in their younger years and then have to adjust that viewpoint when they become more aware of society's norms, but this scenario? Mind. Blown.

It comes back to the question whether having a child is a right or a privilege?

It comes back to the question whether having a child is a right or a privilege?

Always been a privilege in my book (and mine are late teens/early 20s so there were days when I didn't necessarily consider it thus!).

Nonetheless it comes with tremendous responsibility. Which lasts a lifetime.

Yes, privilege in my book too.

And I thought that even when it looked like I was not going to have any.

And yy to lifelong responsibility - too many people do not think beyond the cute baby stage IME.

SomeDyke except that will never happen though will it, this whole thing is about appropriating women's spaces, it's why we now have in many places a men's toilets and a whoever-feels-like-it-formerly-women's toilet.

For me birth is a privilege and a biological truth , women need to be respected, their bodies need to respected and not be censored or forced to misidentify the process.

It would seem that the BMA advice has trans-peaked my mother. I've now explained to her about being TERFs...

nocool

Trans-peaking your mother is brilliant. Tell her to pass it on.

What on earth is trans-peaking? Another nonsensical make up term? In the real world maybe interested people could support this petition to challenge censorship of books written by women? www.change.org/p/protect-feminist-books-at-vancouver-women-s-library?recruiter=668934470&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

middle

Reaching 'peak-trans' happens when a previously 'live and let live' attitude suddenly takes a nosedive when a particularly ludicrous or damaging piece of trans rhetoric hits you between the eyes and your patience 'peaks', then starts to plummet.

Thanks for the link.

Datun thanks - basically when common sense prevails and rational people can see through the BS?

MiddleGround

Exactly. Sometimes it can take a while, but from what I have seen, when it hits, it has the impact of a sledgehammer.

Daten totally with you there - I am currently being attacked on Facebook for daring to question the transgender narrative - am in total shock at the level of hatred and vitriol from individuals who seems to wish to stifle debate and are unable to counter arguments so resort to personal attacks

I'm sorry to hear that, Middle. It can get very nasty very quickly. Without much in the way of fact or logic to support their position, trans activists rely on abuse and threats.

PrawnofthePatriachy This is a sample of a recent exchange with a particularly active individual - a conversation with several people:

SG Thank you all for your input. Allow me to clarify some points.

There is no denying that there are people who feel or wish they were the opposite gender than what they were born as. Such people exist and their concerns/conditions need to be addressed and treated. Additionally, there is no denying that some people have an actual genetic mutation which means they are not typical genetic males or females - however most transgender people do not fall into this category. These things being said, the question is HOW to treat these disorders. The answer to that must be arrived at via evidence-based medicine. Emotions, feelings, political correctness, etc. are not the determinants of medical diagnoses nor of the treatments for said diagnoses. Proper scientific research MUST be the source of our approach to treating these and any other disorders. Unfortunately, many have allowed their emotions to dictate their approach and others have been coerced by societal pressures. Gender disorders must be approached scientifically just as anything else in medicine.

JL how is sexual reassignment surgery and living as their preferred gender not evidence-based though?
The suicide risk in trans people decreases after transitioning and surgery often helps alleviate any dysphoria.
How does that not constitute as evidence?

JY And there we have it - the transition or suicide card - that is just so not good

JL gender is a social construct.
Sex is determined by biology, gender is an identity.
So I don't know why everyone keeps arguing that people can't be transgender when gender is not something palpable in the first place.

JY "So I don't know why everyone keeps arguing that people can't be transgender when gender is not something palpable in the first place." so if gender doesn't exist (isn't palpable) by your logic then transgender doesn't exist either - either way it is a circular argument

Well some of this is plain wrong. The American system stopped funding SRS because it doesn't alleviate dysphoria, and John Hopkins, one of the top American hospitals, stopped doing it because the suicide rate dropped in the first little while after SRS and then bounced right up again.

There's also the issue that SRS itself is rare. Only 20% of TW have it. And about 75% of TW are sexually attracted to women. These are further issues.

When arguing with people on this issue, it help to have lots of links to research, reports, etc. You could flatten your opponent's claims. But, tbh, I wouldn't bother arguing with abusive activists (why put yourself through it?) unless there are other people watching. Never underestimate lurkers. I can't count the times when we've had debates on trans issues here and a poster has popped up to say she's been following the debate and now knows exactly why the feminists think it's so important. So sometimes it's worth arguing because of what it tells onlookers, and it's surprising how often there are onlookers online.

What you've posted isn't what I'd call abusive, though.

I didn't want to offend by posting the horrid stuff but just wanted to illustrate the type of nonsensical arguments/discussion points raised xx

Have they asked you yet if you've had you're chromosomes tested? So how do you know you are a woman? That'always a "aha, gotcha!" favourite.

Bambambini I gave up after I got a headache banging my head against a brick wall so I went off to find a suitable quote instead:

"But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought." George Orwell

middle

The suicide rate does not appear to be affected by having surgery. However, I believe and prawn might correct me if I'm wrong, that although surgery did alleviate certain symptoms of dysphoria, the general level of depression and distress remained the same. Indicating that there are other things going on.

As far as I remember it was a self completing survey (obviously as they were still alive), it was a small sample, it was not followed up and none of the claims verified. Even the authors of the survey thought that the respondents had include self harming rather than actual suicide attempts.

If the percentage of attempted suicides was successful at the same rate as non-trans-suicides you would be seeing one transgender teen killing themselves a week in the U.K. More than two a week in the US.

The suicide claims are piffle. There's a good analysis here.