Using 'Mrs'

[Booboobedoo]

This is something I've been pondering for a while, and now I'm posting on here to garner opinion.

I'm sure I can't be the first to suggest this, but would it not be a logical step to start addressing women as 'Mrs' as soon as they are adults, in the same way that men become 'Mr'?

It would render 'Ms' unnecessary.

Ultimately I suppose I'd prefer all titles to be done away with altogether, but I'm not sure the world is ready 😁.

Any thoughts? Any obvious reason why not?

Anyone?

I am always interested that in the UK titles seem so important. Titles are seldom asked for on forms the US. I have to have a background check for work and the form asks for my sex (well, it says "gender") and all names that I have been known by, which is easy because I didn't change it when I married.

In the US, as has been pointed out, the default is Ms, especially in professional settings. I don't know any married women who use Mrs. And I have noticed that more and more letters are addressed with no title and the salutation is "Dear Jane Smith." This is the Quaker form of address, though I am sure that is not the reason for its use, except maybe in parts of Pennsylvania.

I have speculated before that titles seem much more important in the UK than in the US, perhaps because there are so many more to choose from: lord, lady, sir, dame, etc.

Mrs = married woman. It will always mean 'married'.

Ms = adult woman, marital status unknown.

Why OP do you think should Mrs become the default? Are you by any chance a Mrs?

I've been a Ms since I was 14 years or so. If I live to be 114 I will continue to be a Ms.

Yes Seneca you do seem way ahead on this in the US. And I've noticed in US dramas that Ms seems to be the default formal way to address females. Sounds serious and grown-up. And everyone seems to just pronounce it 'miz' which is the obvious way I would have thought. It's only in the UK that I have sometimes heard people exaggeratedly saying 'muzz' , usually with a subtext of 'OMG what is the ridiculous title you are insisting on using, you silly woman - now are you really Miss or Mrs?'.

Interesting what you say about no titles asked for on forms in the US and formal letters beginning 'Dear Jane Smith'. I have heard it is the same in Scandinavian countries.

And I must say the claims that Ms is difficult to pronounce make me

I agree that people who think it's hard to pronounce just seem a trifle silly. They are able to pronounce other words with z sounds. One of the advantages of living in the American South is that for many years, Mrs has been pronounced Miz by most people. It made it easier to get people used to Ms. And of course no one complains that it is an ugly sound.

As I said, the only people who find it hard to pronounce ar the people who have to put verbal air quotes round it, and make a special little "look at me using this silly word" face. The rest of us just say Miz.

I say Mzz. (Like bzzzz but short). Mostly in answer to the question "Miss or Missus?"

Stops Ms being heard as Miss!

Many teachers at Dc school are Ms and there is no fuss about calling them that, the kids see it as a normal thing.

I had a teacher at secondary school who was Ms 20 years ago. It was not difficult.

We also called the French Teacher Madame Lastname and the German teacher Frau Lastname, so being told "this is Ms X", we didn't say "what's that we don't know that word" we just went along with it.

Given the weak acceptance of Ms. even today in the UK, I can find myself wishing that we had simply done what most other European countries seem to have done--ie, simply adopted the "previous married women's title" (= Mrs) for everyone, and let "Miss" fade away bit by bit.

This is what the French and Germans did (Fraulein died out decades ago, and Mademoiselle seems to be almost obsolete as well), with everyone just going for Mme/Frau.

There even would have been a historical precedent for this, since Mrs was used for unmarried women as well until around 1800, I think.

Oh well, too late now, I guess. I use Ms.

I think with Ms being a default for so many teachers, more young people will grow up expecting it to be the norm.

Until the age of 18 my two brothers were always called "Master" on letters from the bank, my sister and I were "Miss". We are all in our twenties so it wasn't that long ago. I tried to change my title from Miss to Ms with that same bank a few years ago and was told it was only for divorced women. After going home and checking online this wasn't the case I planned to go back in and change it but ended up starting a new bank account with a different bank as Ms.

I do prefer Ms to Mrs and Miss, but I don't think I know how to pronounce it correctly as everytime I say it to someone they say "miss?". I pronounce it as "Miz" which is how I thought it should be, maybe I should be saying "Muz"?

However, being pragmatic, Mrs is much more widely used, and so it seems to me that aiming to enlarge its meaning to encompass all women would be a simpler - and probably more effective - campaign.

But ti implies that by a certain age a woman should be married and if she is not then we will give her the title and pretend.

When my mum gave birth to me all women were referred to as 'Mrs' in the maternity hospital because it was shameful to be pregnant and a Miss.

Personally Mx is the way to go.

Mx is fine written (and an excellent solution if you have to write to someone for whom you only have initials and surname) but I really don't know how it would be pronounced. Or would you just say mister or mizz depending on your perception of which gender the person is? (for once, 'gender' is probably more appropriate than sex in this context)

Mux, I think!

This is what the French and Germans did (Fraulein died out decades ago, and Mademoiselle seems to be almost obsolete as well), with everyone just going for Mme/Frau.

I feel this would have been the better option, too.
Let's face it, the majority of married women are fine with Mrs, so by using Ms we are expecting millions of people to change, and people don't like change.
With Mrs, the married people could keep their status quo, no expectations of them to change, we'd just drop the association of Mrs with marriage (which as others have pointed out hasn't always been the case anyway).
It's worked in France and Germany, and would have worked here too.

Did Madame and Frau ever primarily mean married woman in those countries, though?

Also, their usage is different And has a connotation not just a title. Meine Liebe Frau is my dear wife, Hausfrau is housewife etc. We don't say "house-Missus"

Oui, Madame as a response would be more equivalent to "yes, ma'am" than "yes, Mrs".

Well the British definition of "madame" is a married Frenchwoman, originally a title of respect for a woman of rank, now given to any married woman.
But that's from an English dictionary, I'm not sure what the proper roots are.

Madame and Monsieur can both be used in "bonjour M.." without a surname, which is handy.

Does French have a word for "master"?

When I use "Miss", too many people ask me "when will you get married?"
When I use "Mrs", too many people ask me "when did you get married?"
When I use "Ms", too many people ask me "when did you stop being married?"

"When I use "Ms", too many people ask me "when did you stop being married?"

I have been Ms for more than 40 years. Nobody has ever asked me that.

I wonder if the different responses are down to the people you're acquainted with or a particular demeanor?

I rather feel I let the side down by never being a Ms. - I'm sure there are loads of my generation (I'm 56) but everyone I knew went with Mrs or Dr professionally.

re the pronounciation of Ms, the only way to distinguish it from Miss is the s/z sound, it's quite a subtle difference, especially to a non native speaker. Anyone with poor hearing or in a noisy environment will find it hard too.

I wonder that too Errol, I think that I have rather come to expect the questions and so now my demeanor sort of invites comment. I think that I should just own it from now on.