Using 'Mrs'

[Booboobedoo]

This is something I've been pondering for a while, and now I'm posting on here to garner opinion.

I'm sure I can't be the first to suggest this, but would it not be a logical step to start addressing women as 'Mrs' as soon as they are adults, in the same way that men become 'Mr'?

It would render 'Ms' unnecessary.

Ultimately I suppose I'd prefer all titles to be done away with altogether, but I'm not sure the world is ready 😁.

Any thoughts? Any obvious reason why not?

Anyone?

I don't think it's controversial, it's just that there is definitely progress towards universal acceptance of Ms and using Mrs instead seems like a retrograde step. Also, perhaps if I wasn't already married I might not object to using Mrs subversively as it would not be indicative of my marital status, but as I am married and have been actively avoiding it for nearly 20 years I would be reluctant to take it now.

I got married a few weeks ago. I've tried using Mrs Mysurname-Hissurname but I'm just not keen, I'm 22 and feel too young to be a Mrs

Do you need to do anything specific to start using Ms instead or is it just a case of ticking the "Ms" box instead of "Mrs"?

I've always been Ms since I was a teenager. Just put Ms down.

Do you need to do anything specific to start using Ms instead or is it just a case of ticking the "Ms" box instead of "Mrs"?

You don't need to do anything specific to tick any of them.
None of them mean anything legally.

If you are unmarried you can tick Mrs if you want to- all those women who are divorced are unmarried no matter how many times they tick "Mrs".

Nope, Ovaries, just tick Ms!

See, to me the oppression of Mrs, Miss etc is not that I don't have a choice. It's that marriage confers status. In the very recent past, it meant you were more able, for example, to access banking products, loans, business loans etc. That status was conferred by the association with a man. It was unavailable to unmarried women, and therefore choosing or not to have that title and its associated privilege is a bit of a luxury for the already married or independently wealthy. In this set up, when you choose to use Mrs as an honorific that confers status you are simultaneously choosing that unmarried women are disadvantaged in relation to you. So to me a choice about whether or not to adopt Mrs on marriage isn't really where the oppression of Mrs/ Ms and Miss happen. It's the fact that being married and identifying yourself as such confers actual, material status on the individual that is unavailable to other women who are not associated to men.

While the direct and explicit relation between getting a mortgage and being a Mrs might not be there, to my mind there is still undoubtedly a left over affect, with being a Mrs still associated with being a proper grown up, more responsible etc. And women do often talk about how proud they are of their marriages (as a reason to change their names/ title). So really it does still confer some status and it really is because of the association with men.

The thing with continuing the tradition of using Mrs to denote full adult human status, I'm afraid I find too irritating to get over, because of its history and association with marriage. To me, saying, well , let's just all call ourselves Mrs, is a bit like saying, all the single women are as good as any married women. When I'd much rather we were saying marriage is not relevant to my status as an adult and should confer absolutely no social or material advantage over single women. And I'd also rather not pander to the frightened-of-feminists brigade by avoiding Ms because Milie Tant is off-putting or real to them.

Interested to hear people interchangeably using Mrs or Ms or whatever - I've never been married and it wouldn't occur to me to use Mrs, bc I'd assume for example on tax or similar forms I'd then have to explain my marriage status/ history.

I'd much rather we were saying marriage is not relevant to my status as an adult and should confer absolutely no social or material advantage over single women.

Very well said.

Interested to hear people interchangeably using Mrs or Ms or whatever - I've never been married and it wouldn't occur to me to use Mrs, bc I'd assume for example on tax or similar forms I'd then have to explain my marriage status/ history

I'm honestly not sure which ones need to know your history. The only time i've needed to show my proof of marriage was when I changed my surname.(After 10 years of having dc I wanted the same surname as them, so we got married) It's wasn't to do with my title more the change of name.

I'm sure before and after on anything official I used Ms.

It was a ballache changing driving licence and passport, but other things I still haven't bothered changing. Mainly laziness.

I still answer to and have things addressed to Ms/Miss/Mrs Maiden name

And get stuff addressed to Ms/Miss/Mrs Married name.

I don't have a title at all on my bank accounts and I'm pretty sure there is no title on child tax credits or benefits, but I'd have to check, if it's anything it'll be Ms

Interested to hear people interchangeably using Mrs or Ms or whatever - I've never been married and it wouldn't occur to me to use Mrs, bc I'd assume for example on tax or similar forms I'd then have to explain my marriage status/ history

In anything official where marital status is relevant there will be a specific question about it.

Divorced women who call themselves "Mrs" are not married (indeed widows are not married)

None of Mr, Ms or Miss tell you anything about the person's marital status , so if marital status is relevant there needs to be an explanation box for everyone.

It might be relevant in certain aspects of tax and pensions and obviously when getting married or a father registering a birth but little else.

Ovaries - you can just use Ms, whenever you like.
And you can continue using your own surname by itself, or combined, or anything you like.

I think boys are Master until they are eight ( when they fledged to school) then just their name until 18 when they became Mister.
I worked in a very old fashioned investment house when I first graduated and this was the way correspondence regarding boys was addressed.

I would be very surprised if anyone routinely said "Master X" to a teenage boy, say!

re the DBS/CRB story, I had exactly the same experience, probably about 10 years ago- had the form returned as I had opted for the title Ms, said I was married and not provided any proof of divorce or history of previous name (because I hadn't changed my name, der!)

I think it's all very confusing and unsatisfactory. I don't actually like Ms as it seems so artificial and people don't know how to pronounce it (I'm not sure I know myself really)
I've spent a lot of time in schools and it seems impossible to persuade children (or even other teachers) to use it. So I used to go by Mrs Mysurname. Yet at the same time, kids would always address you as Miiissss. Even in some places, other adults would address you as Miss, especially if they didn't know you- eg 'Miss, I'm sorry to interupt, I need to speak to kevin there'
Which made me think it didn't really matter that much what you were called. Either Mrs Surname or Miss were used as a respectful form of address for a woman.
I think reclaiming Mrs would be a solution, afaik in Germany it's Fraulien until you are 18 then Frau for everyone which is sensible. But now we have Ms in the mix I think we just have to plough on with it. I always use it in formal/official/written situations, but don't insist on it verbally, life's too short. Unless any wanker dares to question me when I tell them my title is Ms. Then they get a hard stare. Or a killer raised eyebrow.

I've never once been questioned in my use of Ms, since I was 17 or so. Not denying others' experiences, just giving my own.

Ovaries - you can just use Ms, whenever you like.
And you can continue using your own surname by itself, or combined, or anything you like.

That's good to know, I think I shall be a Ms from now on :)

I love our combined surnames and that we've both got our combined surnames, I just couldn't get used to being "Mrs".

Some else had problems with the CRB check a few years ago on another thread, it's on page 2

13/06/2014 00:09 EATmum

I used to be involved in CRB checks and we got a load back that were rejected because each person had claimed to be a Ms (shock) but didn't have an entry in the 'previous surname' box. After long conversations with the relevant office, we had to repeat the surname in the 'previous surname' box for the computer not to automatically reject a Ms without a previous name. I ask you...
I have been a Ms always, single and married. That status is my business, no one else's

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2105527-Mr-Mrs-Miss-Ms-Asking-for-your-support?pg=1&order=

Well, it must have been a rogue office. I ave been a Ms all my adult life and been CRB/DBS checked for as long as the checks have existed. Never been a problem.

maybe some bright spark was putting your name in the 'previous name' box for you- MysticTwat's thread suggests it was a flaw in the actual computer system

I've never once been questioned in my use of Ms, since I was 17 or so. Not denying others' experiences, just giving my own

Me too. Never been questioned as to why I use it or randomly use Miss or had to explain why my son has a different surname.

"MysticTwat's thread suggests it was a flaw in the actual computer system"
So fix the glitch in the system. Don't use it as a reason for not using Ms- that would just be bizarre!

"maybe some bright spark was putting your name in the 'previous name' box for you"
What, a lot of different bright sparks over 25 years? Or however long CPS checks have existed?

I'm old enough to remember that Master and Miss were terms used for the young. I think Master turned into Mr at 18. Miss, otoh, was used until or unless a woman married, which was why feminists objected to it. Lawks! I'm old enough to remember Ms coming in!

I think it was a mistake now. Going for Mrs as equivalent to Mr would have made more sense, as for centuries all adult women were addressed as Mistress. But we went for Ms and I suspect changing it now would just create confusion, though in practice there are now 3 terms for women and 2 for men, which was exactly the reason we came up with Ms in the first place.

I am quite happy with 'Mrs' and don't want to be 'Ms'.

Great post outsself.

You call yourself Mrs if you want OP. But not me. Ms is better. Doesn't have the connotations.

I much prefer Ms. More straightforward. And not at all hard to pronounce - just 'miz' surely. Ms, Miss and Mrs all derive from Mistress, and Mr derives from Master. So back in ye olde days (17th century and previous) adults would all be Master or Mistress, unless they were lords and ladies or royalty.

Miss and Mrs both are commonly used to indicate marital status for females so ideally they should both be dropped, and I am sure they will be eventually.