Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

[BeyondTheHarpy]

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

Countess oh hell no. Do you not for a single second think I have managed to just laugh it off. I have struggled seriously for many years and it did massively affect my life seriously and negatively for a long time. But that doesn't mean that I am incapable of understanding that not all men are predators or that I am in constant danger because of their very existence.

Then how about not patronising and insulting other posters by saying we think all men are predators and that we are in constant danger? Because that is gaslighting bullshit. I mean, seriously, how can you confuse an argument that says 'predators exist' with one that says they are all men?

But that doesn't mean that I am incapable of understanding that not all some men are predators or that I am in constant occasional danger because of their very existence.

Fixed that.

Well then isn't a very simple and obvious solution to change the certification process? So instead of all the rigmarole currently in place, maybe just a GP could sign a form, or a SW or psychologist, so genuine or gender fluid people can use the bathroom and safety, and the freaks and weirdos who just want to perve can't

This would be ideal all but unfortunately the legislation is going in the opposite direction it is removing all or any certification.

Because she wants privileged access to space that is specifically provided to ensure that I and my daughter are afforded privacy, dignity and safety. Why should we open the door to someone who simply says "I feel like a woman"?

Because you are acting like just because of this ruling suddenly thousands and thousands of predators that didn't exist before are going to be climbing into your local gym and your swimming pool changing room and the toilet at the coffee shop and at the pub and the office to try and sneak a peek at your goodies and that is just insane! No one is denying that these freaks and weirdos who want to attack you or flash you or get a look at you exist, of course they exist, I would wager that pretty much every single woman on this site has come across one of them at least at some point. But this ruling isn't going to suddenly create more. They are already out there, they are already trying to get a look at some girl when they can, they are already waiting in alleyways to flash young joggers, they are vile disgusting little cretins who should be castrated and hung drawn and quartered, but this ruling is not going to create more that didn't exist before. You will get a few kids trying it on, a couple of really fucked up weirdos who should be locked up trying to claim they are a woman today, but you're not suddenly all going to be under attack every single time you pull your pants down outside the house. I keep saying, I have been attacked, more than one, I am well aware of what it can be like out there, I could very easily think every single man is a potential rapist, I could very easily scare myself into never leaving the house, but it is just not true, and I refuse to live like that. The majority of men, like the majority of women, are not nasty abusive predators and I do not believe that it is in any way right at all that someone like my friend is going to have her life and safety jeopardised because one in 1 million freaks might try to push their luck.

And women's safety? We can just stop our "sillly squawking" and happily let in the "one in a million freaks"? How does that even benefit your friend?

AllPartOfThePlan I'm not seeing where any concerns for women, or even acknowledgement that concern is warranted, from any of your posts.
They are literally all about the comfort and safety of transwomen, and us mere woman should stop being nasty and shut up.

No but it will allow them to legally get into spaces that previously they would have been kicked out of.

It will allow them the power to self identify and intimidate women and girls and there is nothing we can do about it.

If you seriously think that a bunch of pissed up males won't suddenly start identifying as women just because they can on a Saturday night in the pub to gain access to women's toilets you are deluded. If you seriously think that people with perverted thoughts who used to sit at home on the internet to get their kicks won't use the self identification law to gain access to women's spaces without fear of reprocussions then you are seriously deluded.

Those sorts of people will now be classed as transgender, they will have the same rights that your friend and my child have. Your friend will be lumped into the same category as the people who will abuse this self identification which will make life harder for your friend.

Why can't you see this?

They will go to the places they can best get away with it, as they always have. In future this will mean women's loos and changing rooms.

The crimes of indecent exposure and voyeurism will simply cease to exist. Any man who has been convicted of these crimes will simply be able to walk in and sit down with a veritable smorgasbord of victims in full view.

And the bit that really gets me, is there is nothing you can do. He was looking at me funny, he was touching his penis, he went into A cubicle and sounded like he was masturbating. All perfectly legal. Because no 'woman' can be arrested for getting inadvertently aroused.

This is not about common sense. This is not about possibilities. This is not about what you think may or may not happen this is about certain actions being enshrined in law.

Because I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. Like I said, there may be the odd one, but they're not going to be climbing in every single window if every single changing room and toilet in the country every night. And pissed up blokes on a Saturday night? They are already there!! Clubs and bars have bouncers, girls always go to the loo in pairs or groups, they have attendants, and seriously, are we that week that we can't shout at someone to fuck off any more? Honestly, I don't think it is me who is deluded, you seem to think that everyone is sitting at home just waiting to be able to run into a nightclub toilet shouting "I'm a woman today show us your tits!" and all us poor feeble little delicate ladies won't be able to cope! there are lots of very decent men out there who will also be watching out for us, as they do already, and I'm sure they will be perfectly happy to keep an eye on who is going into the toilet. I honestly think the problem is certification, not demanding that genitals rather than identity dictate which bathroom you should use. I really think fighting that is transfobic and oppressing people like my friend, and that the obvious and better solution would be to campaign against removing certification completely and campaign to require certification but much easier for genuine trans-people as I said above. all through this thread all I have been seeing is "they have a penis they can go to the men's room!". But there is no regard for their safety or their feelings. How is that not transphobic? I understand that you are scared that weirdos will gain access to places, but I really don't think the way you are fighting it or talking about it or arguing it helps at all! I know my friend would be absolutely heartbroken to read this! Seriously, she just wants to take a piss! In a private cubicle with no one looking at her bits and bobs, and she has no interest in looking at anyone else's. I think you are focusing on the wrong issue.

You really don't get it, do you.

This is a proper existential threat. If any male who claims to "feel like a woman" is considered a woman, we can't fight for women's rights. We can't even define women's issues or collect data to show that women are disadvantaged.

Mile hill? The mountain is actually fucking there, independent of your frankly astonishing inability to see it.

Mole hill, although if it were a Mile high you probably wouldn't see it even then.

It's the self certification that is the issue.

That's what people are saying.

Self certification leaves women and genuine transgender people at a huge disadvantage and puts us all in danger.

Nobody here is saying your friend is a pervert, people are saying that perverts will take advantage of self certification for their own gain

of self identification [[https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/man-strips-in-front-of-girls-in-swimming-pool-locker-says-transgender-law-a]]

There may not be thousands of incidents, there may not even be hundreds but where do you draw the line? Do the girls at this swimming pool not have the right to privacy and safety because it's just one incidence? How many perverts taking advantage would it take for you to think that self identification is a bad idea?

I personally think that moving from a rule that mostly succeeds in protecting women and girls to one which will cause greater risk is a bad idea. I think on balance of probability the move to self identification will lead to lots more women and girls being harassed and assaulted and that is not acceptable to me.

Having come late and, in catching up, read rather too many stream of consciousness, I can testify to the inability.

Consequences of self identification link again

Elsa right, we agree on something, so why are you fighting that someone like my friend asked to going to the men's room rather than fighting that the certification that needs to change?

I never once said someone like your friend needs to go to the men's room.

In fact if you look at my post at 12.42 you'll see that I said my child has used toilets of the sex they present as when there hasn't been accessible toilets.

It is the self certification I'm against.

Right, so again, you and I actually agree. So why all the way through this am I just constantly seeing "she has a penis she should go in the men's room tough luck"? That doesn't help.

Many people on this thread are happy for transgender people to use a gender neutral bathroom. Problem sorted.

That is the position that the trans activists have forced the feminists to take.

I never saw a thread on here about it before they got involved.

Trans activists have come out with such extreme views that feminists have had to counteract that.

Unfortunatly the trans activists have forced people to choose a side and, understandably, feminists have had to take an all or nothing attitude to the trans activists all or nothing attitude.

It isn't the feminists on this thread you need to blame for their views on this issue, it's the people who are jumping on the bandwagon of a cause and fighting for rights that are detrimental to women, to your friend, to my child and to all genuine transgender people.

' So why all the way through this am I just constantly seeing "she has a penis she should go in the men's room tough luck"? '

Because people disagree but what we all have in common is that our viewpoints are considered transphobic and bigoted, as will yours be if you argue for anything other than self identification and no documentation to be required at any point.

I would be in favour of a compromise in which the actual living-as-a-woman transwomen could use women's facilities such as toilets and changing rooms but there would still be an exception for things like personal care to be done by members of the same biological sex, you could still have single sex sporting events, single sex rape support groups. But this is so far from what transactivists would consider acceptable they wouldn't even see it as a compromise.