Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

[BeyondTheHarpy]

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

Sorry to ask again, but genuinely intriged. Re. the situation Monkey has talked about, with a boy known to be sexually inappropriate with girls now identifying as a girl and wanting to use girl's loos/changing rooms at school. What would they do if it was a girl known to have groped other girls. (Or a boy groping other boys)?
I'm thinking if a girl had done that to girls (for eg.) then it would be considered a safeguarding issue and the girl in question would be expected to use separate facilities/change separately, because of their actions...?

I would think so too, Laura.

Off you pop then luv.

YY Laura. If the school feels obliged to respect this kids self-identified gender (though in the circumstances described a bit of scepticism wouldn't go amiss), then at this point they should apply whatever sanctions would apply if a girl behaved inappropriately to another girl.

Laura I've not read that bit and frankly I've wasted enough time on this and it's not going anywhere, I am never going to agree that a trans woman who is uncomfortable in the men's loo should be told to man up and deal with it, but I would have to know the specifics and ages etc, I'm imagining it would be very complicated and frankly I just can't with this anymore. All this nonsense about turn the men's into GN & tell them to suck it up and we'll help when they get beaten up... ugh. Sickening frankly.

InTheNick, Frequency, DramaQueen (and maybe others, I've only skimmed through this thread) I'm with you. I've sat quietly through a lot of these threads, and likely will have to do the same through a lot more, not because I don't care, but because between baby and work there really isn't much time left to spend scrolling through vitriol and repeated suggestions that transwomen are simply sexual predators who want an easy way of getting into the ladies' loos.

I am so happy with MNHQ/Justine's post about MN being a place of tolerance and understanding.

Yes there are nasty people in the world who want to sneak into dressing rooms and record/attack people, but they're not solely transwomen. They are criminals, however, and rather than banning transwomen from bathrooms/changing rooms just because of who they are, we should be arresting and charging criminals for committing crimes.

I am not Spartacus.

I am a woman, a title I hold in high regards, and which I will proudly share with anyone who genuinely wants it.

In conversations about race I may label myself a white woman.
In conversations about children I may label myself a mother.
In conversations about sex and/or gender I may label myself a ciswoman.

I'm also a really shitty debater right now as I'm still at work, then have a small child to collect, so am really sorry for posting and running, and sorry if this is disjointed, I'm not able to give my full focus whilst stealthily not-working.

I thought MN was a place of tolerance and understanding too but this has shocked me. "Fuck off to the men's room you freaks and man up but keep those icky willies away from our loos till someone knees you in them then we may sign an online petition for you." 😳 Wow.

Bluekarou I understand you are too busy to engage as fully as you would have liked, but you have REALLY missed the point by a long way judging by: 'Yes there are nasty people in the world who want to sneak into dressing rooms and record/attack people, but they're not solely transwomen.'

Of course they're not, this is the point! But if we change the law to self identification anyone can say they are and there will be no legal basis to challenge them.

I mean, it doesn't matter if your response is disjointed, but if it involves disagreeing with things that no-one has actually said I am not sure what the point is.

It's a wonder there is any straw left in the world with all the men All has made out of them in one afternoon.

Blue that is absolutely not what has been said. I get that you haven't had time to read through the various threads but if you really believe that this is all about pearl clutching you have spectacularly missed the point.

I sometimes feel that I am reading different posts - the issue, as far as I can tell and has been clearly expressed, is not with transwomen but with men who will take advantage of the proposed change in law to self-declaration.

Most women have shared with transwomen in the past, I certainly have, and are quite sympathetic. However, that does not mean that I am happy for the barriers to come down and make it easier for predatory men to access these spaces. As shown in earlier posts, some men will take advantage of this to assault women and girls. If transwomen are worried about being attacked in men's toilets, why the lack of empathy with women who worry about opening up female only spaces?
No one seems to be able to explain why one set of fears is valid and the other is merely 'hysteria', 'bigoted' and 'transphobic'. Why are women's fears so easily dismissed?

MN is a place of tolerance and understanding.

Disagreeing with a very narrow minded viewpoint doesn't mean people are intolerant at all.

For those that have come to the last couple of posts and might be thinking "hmmm, yes, it does seem a bit transphobic around here", may I just point out the fact that seems blindingly obvious to me, but seems like it may not be to others.

Transmen are welcome with open arms in the women's facilities. From me, and I am pretty confident from all the other spartaci on this thread.

Please, all and blue and anyone else nodding along, will you explain how that then means that we think trans people are "freaks" who need to "fuck off" or that we are randomly subjecting trans people to vitriol?

Because I know for a fact that my trans-female friend wants to use the woman's bathroom, because she feels she is a woman. She does her hair and make up like a woman, she dresses like a woman, she uses a woman's name. Forcing her to go into the men's room not only deeply upsets and insults her, making her feel like she is not excepted in society, but also makes her fear for her safety, because she does get a lot of nasty comments and looks from people. Bless her, she tries to look like a woman, but you can tell. Forcing her to use the men's room because some random weirdo might try and walk into the ladies claiming that they feel like a woman today is not a good enough reason. She needs protecting, and she needs to live her life to be free to be who she wants to be. You are saying to her fuck off to the men's room because some random weirdo might try and use you as an excuse to attack me. Just man up and deal with it. But if you do get attacked then we will backtrack. you are saying to her fuck off to the men's room because some random weirdo might try and use you as an excuse to attack me. Just man up and deal with it. But if you do get attacked then we will back you up, even though we put you in that position. Oh gee thanks for that! 🙄

Phone is playing silly buggers and I'm tired.

In response to the question about toilet reallocation... in large buildings with multiple toilets, some of the men's could become gender neutral. Then you'd have women's, men's, gender neutral and accessible toilets. In smaller places, ideally you'd rearrange to have all single unit gender neutral toilets, with floor-to-ceiling doors, a washbasin etc and opening out onto a public/busy area/corridor. If the building is too old/small/listed/whatever to accommodate this then they'd be an exception to this and they'd have to do the best they could to provide a range of facilities. I'm sure there are places currently that don't have accessible toilets because they can't fit them in.

All There wasn't an issue until the trans activists got involved. Genuine people like your friend could go about their lives.

The activists are fighting for rights which are detrimental to genuine transgender people and detrimental to women.

If you want to help your friend then you should be speaking out against the activists who want to declare themselves as women on a whim which completely minimises what genuine transgender people go through and lumps those who have been this way for years, have therapy, attend clinics, have hormones etc in with the weirdos who want to be a woman for an hour and automatically have the same rights as people like your friend.

"repeated suggestions that transwomen are simply sexual predators who want an easy way of getting into the ladies' loos."

Life must be hard without basic English comprehension skills. Nobody said that on this thread or anywhere else on MN.

All - my view (which I know is not shared by everyone on here) is that when your friend has completed a full transition, including bottom surgery, they will be welcome in the ladies loos. And she should also be speaking out against the people who think it is sufficient to say "today I feel like a woman" and thus get free access to sex segregated spaces, who would pose a similar threat to her as to women.

Well then isn't a very simple and obvious solution to change the certification process? So instead of all the rigmarole currently in place, maybe just a GP could sign a form, or a SW or psychologist, so genuine or gender fluid people can use the bathroom and safety, and the freaks and weirdos who just want to perve can't, or get arrested if they don't have a form, rather than ostracising and endangering everyone??? It's like a teacher saying one member of the class did something wrong so now the whole class has to be punished! I can understand why self certification opens it up to abuse, but I can also understand that the current system is insane and why they don't want to go through that! So isn't that the obvious solution?? Rather than all this nonsense about renaming men's toilets as GM toilets?

Olennas why should she have to have a huge operation just to make you feel better?

'MN is a place of tolerance and understanding' - to be fair, All, I haven't noticed an awful lot of tolerance and understanding from you towards women who have been victims of flashers and voyeurs but who unlike you aren't cool enough to just laugh it off.

All trans activists don't want that as it's transphobic.

I am a woman, a title I hold in high regards, and which I will proudly share with anyone who genuinely wants it.*

What do you mean by "genuinely" in this context?