Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

[BeyondTheHarpy]

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

Not everyone All, no, not everyone.

Elsa is the parent of a trans-gender child. She has helped many people on here understand the difficulties involved. If you stopped spouting off for just one moment and took time to do an AS on her, or anyone else, your posts wouldn't sound so ill informed.

Choc that was following on from what someone else said about male violence. 🙄

Elsa well that clears it up, thanks. 🙄

And again, it's all very well campaigning for a separate area, but how the fuck is every single school, restaurant, gym, doctor's surgery, hospital, train station, cinema, bar, shopping centre, fucking playground ffs supposed to put in an extra facility specifically for another group??? Okay, so some will have the facilities to be able to change and existing one, some will have a disabled loo they could use, but most places just simply do not have the room! How the fuck is that workable??? Which takes you back to the first point is, if they can't have a separate place, then which one should they use??? The one where they feel on safe and uncomfortable and could quite possibly face violence or discrimination, or the one where the occasional freak who already exists and already does this now may try to sneak a look at your lady garden using them as an excuse. It doesn't make sense.

A trans-woman probably faces discrimination and danger than a woman does. I said it enough times, I've been great I've been in a violent relationship, I know what some men are capable of, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

How did all those places manage to sort out disabled toilets? They haven't always been available, and somehow space has been made for them. Perhaps some of the male toilets in venues could be converted into gender neutral toilets for those that want to use them.

*more

Speak so you think there should be a woman's toilet, a disabled toilet, and the gender neutral toilet? So how does that solve anything? Women are going to go to the women's one and you still got the same problem!

So basically transwomen feeling uncomfortable is important but women feeling uncomfortable doesn't matter.

Ditto 'safe'.

...'occasional freak who already exists and already does this now may try to sneak a look at your lady garden' ...

Some of the disparaging language re women is really quite disturbing!

What did you want me to clear up exactly All?

You are seeing the world through rose tinted glasses, you are unwilling to accept any other point of view, there isn't a lot more that anyone can say to you because you want to dictate your views and aren't willing to listen to people who know a lot more about this than you do.

I support trans rights, of course I do, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with every whim and notion that every trans activists comes out with, it also doesn't mean that every right the trans activists are fighting for are in the interests of the majority of transgender people.

You are confusing support with blindly agreeing with everything.

I wish a device or gadget existed that would allow
Someone, to really experience period pains and labour . So they would really know how it feels to be a woman!

Or for that matter, to grow up being pushed aside for boys and inappropriate behaviour from random male strangers.

"Speak so you think there should be a woman's toilet, a disabled toilet, and the gender neutral toilet? So how does that solve anything? Women are going to go to the women's one and you still got the same problem!"

I would also want there not be a change in the law to allow self-identification as the only definition of being transgender. That's the important part of this that keeps getting ignored. There are no laws about who can go in which toilets at the moment (as far as I am aware). I don't want there to be a change in the law (the adoption of self-identification as the only definition of being transgender) which will mean that women are unable to object to male-bodied people being in the women's toilets. In the world of self-identification, if a woman were to object to a male-bodied person in women's facilities, then they would guilty of transphobic harrassment if the person says they self-identify as transgender. There is no way that I can see to police or verify self-identification.

"Speak so you think there should be a woman's toilet, a disabled toilet, and the gender neutral toilet? So how does that solve anything? Women are going to go to the women's one and you still got the same problem!"

Eh? Women use the women's and transwomen use the gender neutral.

Accepting you will be tested as a second class citizen. And taking a pay cut after all a lot of woman still don't get paid the same as their male counterparts.(sorry a bit of a rant)

Most smaller places will have one or two single room toilets with sink in the room and a lock on the door no gaps anywhere.

I use these irrelevant of what the toilet is labelled, as I have an intermittent bowel condition which mean I sometime need very fast access to toilets and these single room types are safe for anyone. Who cares if it says men or women...a door sign doesn't change my sex !

Maybe all the one room type should be labelled as unisex. But either way as these are single occupancy any trans person can use any of them.

But in bigger places where there are banks of flimsy cubicles with gaps above and below, trans people should use the toilet aligned to their biological body, it is logical.

The ladies bathroom has no magical properties. If a transwoman was targeted by a violent man, that violent man is able to follow transwoman into the ladies or wait outside the toilet for them. Now and after the law changes.

A transwoman should use the male toilets, report any crime which occurs (like women do) and start a campaign to tackle male violence and we women will stand shoulder to shoulder with them.

Ffs Datun, which one do the men use? The gender neutral one. So what is the fucking difference???? That's not a solution! Renaming the men's "gender neutral" is still going to make it the men's loo when there's already a woman's and a disabled. How does that solve the problem of a trans woman who feels vulnerable and uncomfortable going to the men's loo and wants to use the woman's because she identifies as a woman? and if it is gender neutral then women can use it, so what about men who don't want women in their bathroom? If women don't want men in their bathroom why should men want women in theirs? Turning the men's bathroom into a gender neutral bathroom doesn't actually sold any problem at all! What do you think that is changing, apart from the sign on the door? I can think of a lot of men who wouldn't particularly want women to use their bathroom. So either they all become gender neutral, or none of them are gender neutral. If none of them are gender neutral we are still in the same position, if they are all gender neutral then men can go into the ladies anyway and you're not protected from all these peeping toms and rapists that are out to get you! So what is the solution? I'm trying to think of all the buildings I know with public toilets, and the larger ones like the leisure centre or the cinema would have to do some remodelling but would probably have the space to create a third gender neutral bathroom, but the smaller buildings like the little local pub or a smaller restaurant or coffee shop don't have anywhere near that room. So how do they create a third bathroom? Take away from the disabled? My local pub has two toilets in two bathrooms, so two in one room for men, two in another room for women. There is no disabled toilet, it's a very old listed building, there is no way to add another toilet in. So how would they for example have a men's, women's, GN & disabled?? It's all very well demanding a third GN bathroom for the odd rare trans-person who visits, but how on earth would it work practically?? Are you going to pay for that establishment to fit in an extra toilet and remodel the building? Rather than just let a person who identifies as a woman use the woman's toilet?

Hear, hear, babies. I can see no reason why loos or any other single sex space should be redefined as being accessed on the basis of gender fucking identity rather than, as present, by sex.

Babies yeah, I'm sure they'll really feel like we're going to stand alongside them and fight together after this! "We understand how you feel, we get attacked too, but you can't come in here, oh no, you have to go and face getting attacked on your own, but when you decide to stand up for yourself, and this doesn't count, then will stand next to you." Sounds great.

We're just a tiny step away from "no ones going to want to rape you anyway you hairy feminazis".

all

I assumed there would be a gents as well.

As it's stands, I agree with babies and prawn. Toilets, and any other similar areas should be segregated according to biological sex.

It is not the job of women to help men sort out violence from other men.

I would be more than happy for there to be a third space for transgender people. But frankly, I have yet to see a campaign being spearheaded by any trans groups for that to happen. Which always makes me wonder.

Indeed and the ' oh ffs don't be so unreasonable, you horrible hairy minges

AllPartOfThePlan

In cases of old building with just older type multi occupancy toilets. Trans women should use the men's toilet, as it matches their biological body. As we always separate people in bathrooms based on biological sex not on gender.

Xenophile - or "you shoudl be grateful that someone finds you attractive enough to want to do that to you"

You know, I hate that talk and accusations of feminazis but this thread is starting to make me understand the frustration!