Trans media watch are lobbying mnhq

[BeyondTheHarpy]

I know this has already been mentioned in the PL thread, but I thought it might be an idea to bring it to the attention of mners in a thread of its own.

After the PL debacle, there followed a thread in AIBU about toilet. On which this post appeared...
"I'm with you OP and I'm horrified by the transphobia on Mumsnet. I have done some work with Transmedia Watch who are trying to persuade MNHQ to treat transphobia as they would treat any other hate crime. I don't know what MNHQ have against the trans community or why they don't challenge the widespread belief that trans women are rapists in frocks who want to see fannies."

So, yeah, just letting you know that they are (allegedly) on the case with mnhq.

All my child respects that people won't feel comfortable, and also doesn't feel comfortable themselves and uses accessible toilets and facilities.

We plan around that.

There have been the very rare occasion where my child has used the toilet of the sex they present as, however we have strategies in place for that to be as quick and respectful as possible.

It's not difficult.

You aren't listening to the people saying that the transgender people who have been quietly and respectfully been going about their business with little attention for years aren't the issue, they have been dragged into it by the people who are using being transgender as the latest bandwagon to jump on and gain some notoriety in their lives.

People like my child are being harmed by the trans activists demanding this that and the next thing on their behalf and now my family is being forced to choose which side to be on because TRA have made it so there is no neutral ground anymore.

I would rather share with Buck Angel than Danielle Muscato!
Don't know anything about the other tw you mentioned but the one who self advertises as a sex worker with a seven inch surprise is also pretty - I don't think looks are really relevant.

And if a load of trans women were in the women's changing room with their penises (peni??) out I think they'd be more concerned about me than the other way round! I honestly don't think I'd be scared, just because they have a penis doesn't mean they want to use it on me.

So why would you feel uncomfortable in the male changing room then?

Datun I get what you keep hammering on about over and over and over again but if the lads from The Inbetweeners walked into a woman's changing to gawp at the women and you or I caught them and told them to fuck off and gave them a quick round here, and the police walked in and asked him what the hell they thought they were playing at, and they turned round and said "oh we're women officer!" you SERIOUSLY thing the police will just say " okay ladies, no problem, off you go!" Come on! Don't be silly. If you and I were in the women's room and I was staring at you and making Hannibal Lecter sucky noises and jacking off you'd still be protected and I've got the equipment to prove I'm a woman ffs.

Buck Angel is an incredibly macho looking transman. As a woman, she was a lesbian. She has not had any srs.

I agree, she may get a funny look. She is a born a woman and does not have male pattern violence, and will also need to use any menstrual facilities. I would have no more problem with her than I would with any other woman, lesbian, butch lesbian or otherwise.

Allpartoftheplan I would be genuinely interested to know if you would make any distinction between male presenting and female presenting transwomen.

A little thought experiment, All. Let's imagine that your trans woman in the male changing rooms is instead my flamboyantly gay male best friend.

"I don't think it's the actual act of getting undressed that is the problem, it's walking in, as an obviously gay man, getting a locker, finding a cubicle, changing in there knowing all those guys are outside probably waiting to jump you, maybe it's just a curtain rather than a locking door, then coming back out, putting your clothes away and leaving, then all that again on the way back plus having a shower... you yourself said, male violence".

Should he be in the woman's changing room too, on the basis that he will be less at risk of homophobic violence there? Because he would be. But the solution is tackling male homophobic violence, because that's what is threatening your trans friends and my gay friend. And all the accommodations in the world that women could make won't solve that. The only thing that solves that is tackling male violence and homophobia.

How do you tell the difference between a "safe" penis and an unsafe one, since under self-declaration anyone will be able to get their dick out in the women's changing room?

Anything at all you say about women being able to call for help, use a cubicle etc is going to apply equally to transwomen in the men's. There are also long lists of occurrences of biological males attacking women in toilets / changing rooms etc, but nobody ever seems able to provide a similar list of incidents in the men's.

A lot of people respond to this with "but these men aren't really trans", but that's the point of self-declaration isn't it? They are if they say they are and how the hell are women meant to tell the difference anyway?

If you and I were in the women's room and I was staring at you and making Hannibal Lecter sucky noises and jacking off you'd still be protected

Great. Then if a transwoman is in the men's and a bloke's staring at them and being threatening, they're protected too aren't they?

Countess I don't know about you but I tend to not look down when I see a naked person, male or female, so all I'd try to see is their waist up. In the example of Buck Angel if I didn't know who he was I'd assume man, all working man parts and all, and I'd be more confused with him being in the ladies than looking down to check what sex he was born as! With Lea T or the others again at a first glance which is about as much as I'd give anyone in a changing room I'd assume woman. So if she were in the men's room presumably at first glance they'd think woman too. Then knowing some men they would try and make funny comments, eventually realise they were chatting up a "man" and hey presto there's that male violence we want to avoid.

Elsa because I identify as a woman, not a man! The trans women group you were talking about identify as women, so why would I be scared?

It's the inner person who scares or comforts me, not their appendage.

Like these two. Both convicted sex attackers

The trans women group you were talking about identify as women, so why would I be scared?

Because 10 blokes who are a group of mates could well have decided 5 minutes beforehand to identify as women for a laugh, and legally they are allowed to do that at the moment.

All, that's a male presenting transman and female presenting transwoman you're talking about.
I was interested in your view about male presenting transwomen, ie the ones who dress male, are biologically male, haven't done any kind of physical transition, but identify as women.

"If you and I were in the women's room and I was staring at you and making Hannibal Lecter sucky noises and jacking off you'd still be protected and I've got the equipment to prove I'm a woman ffs."

Oh yeah because that totally happens all the time

Why hasn't anyone thought of protecting us against other women who corner is on toilets to smack their lips & make Hannibal Lecter noises at us as they masturbate in plain sight? WHY, I ask you. WHY?!?!

Thank you All. No reall, Thank You for this much needed initiative.

Finally a banner for us all to unite under!

How does this

Countess I don't know about you but I tend to not look down when I see a naked person, male or female, so all I'd try to see is their waist up.

tally with

But I've never been one of these woman who is happy to wander around a changing room butt naked bold as brass anyway, even in front of women I'll keep a towel around me or go into a cubicle and frankly I wish they'd all do that because I hate sitting to put my shoes on and there's some big old hairy muff in my face, frankly I'd rather see a penis if I had to choose!

Pooch honestly I'd have no problem with gay men in the women's room if they're at risk in the men's. They're obviously not a danger to me! Is it just the penis you don't want to see regardless of who is attached? That's pretty fucked up.

Empress come on everyone knows the answer to that and it's unpleasant. The majority of men are far bigger and stronger than the majority of women, they can overpower us and generally can fight better and physically control us if they wanted to. A group of them against one trans woman? She doesn't stand a chance, she's going down and she and they know it, if it came to it if she was unlucky enough to come across a group of brainless Neanderthal thugs. A trans woman in a women's room with a group of women isn't the same risk or same threat. They're generally always going to be outnumbered.

Look I don't want my camp gay friend, my trans female friend, my trans male friend or any of my female or male friends being targeted and attacked just because they needed the loo, but we all know what the problem is here and that's not going to change for quite some time. If Brock Turner and the others can get off pretty much scot free we are a long long way from finding a resolution to that, it's going to take generations and in the mean time I think we need to protect the vulnerable ones in society, group together and fight it together. It's not going to happen if we tell our allies that no we don't want you because you have a penis just like them.

Else I understand what you are saying and I'm not sure there's a simple solution for a child, but they're always more protected with adults around, but as an adult wouldn't you want your kids to be able to use the facilities that they identify with and feel safest in? I don't understand how saying yes they can puts them in more danger? If one of my girls decided they were a boy I would want them to look and feel how they are comfortable and use the bathroom they feel happiest in, I don't understand how saying no to that keeps them safer. Most places are not going to have the option to create a third gender neutral room, so where should they go? If everything is mixed and free for all you get people complaining that a man might look at them, if they're separate then that's the whole current issue, if there's no room to create a third room and no separate disabled room to use as a third option then what are they supposed to do??

Elsa because I identify as a woman, not a man! The trans women group you were talking about identify as women, so why would I be scared?

Because identifying as a woman doesn't change ones personality, motives, equipment or intentions. For a sexual predator, (whether trans or not) it's an absolutely perfect disguise. Why don't you see that?

all

Please, please don't tell Elsa what to do or how you would do it differently.

Spartacus because quite plainly obviously I don't particularly want to see anyone's genitals and I try to avoid them all in changing rooms but it has happened a few times when I've gone to the communal bit to sit down and put my shoes on and someone is walking around naked and my face is at their crotch height and just, euw, I don't want to see it, I wish everyone would cover up and everyone had a cubicle, it would save a lot of arguments for everyone all round but it's not always gong to be possible in all places so what's the solution??

The solution is to raise objections to the upcoming legislation, and campaign for separate spaces for all transgendered people.

All that just proves to me what a narrow minded view you have of the situation as a whole.

You have no idea of the challenges and difficulties that this involves.

I have lived with my child being this way for years, way before it was the popular thing to be, and have seen how detrimental this has all been to my child's rights as well as how detrimental it is to women's rights too.

there knowing all those guys are outside probably waiting to jump you

Jesus Christ - where do you live that these regular beatings are happening in the men's changing room? My experiences are that men are generally pretty OK about it all. In fact, I've seen an instagram feed of a transwoman who took pics in the men's toilets, and not a single fuck was given by the men peeing behind.

Can you provide one news story of a tranwoman being beaten up in a men's toilet/changing room? Because we've already provided plenty of transwomen (or perhaps fake transwomen - but how can we tell) abusing women in women's changing rooms.