Cat calling

[Cocklodger]

I'm sure this one has been done to death, I don't frequent the board often tbh.
now I hate catcalling. I'm sure every woman has or will experience it. Its not pleasant. It makes me angry and sometimes it scares me,
But today I've seen a post on FB (with someone of a similar view point to me) being ripped into, because
''Its just a compliment''
she's a ''fun sucker''
''I bet she would've REALLY just asked for his number''... Those comments came from women.
Now I, being me decided to defend this person and found the same comments hurled at me. I've now just left it because I've gotten to the point where I can no longer even try to come up with a coherent argument. I have also received personal insults(about my appearance and the fact I'm obviously a bit fat since I was recently pregnant baby under 2wks old)
i just didn't realize how acceptable it was, I genuinely thought it was wildly noted as pretty fucking annoying (If I'm being generous)
I don't even know what to say.
Wtf is wrong with people?
Can someone please reassure me that I'm not wrong? I know I sound bloody pathetic but for some reason finding out how acceptable it is has actually quite scared and shaken me a lot....

Two great initiatives. But I thought you were talking about something revolutionary and we had been stumbling around in the dark completely missing it ?

How so?

I was in an advisory role for all, I am not idealistic enough to know that the real world won't impliment purely research driven initiatives, and cost effectiveness and popularity has to be prominant, but these initiatives will develop over time to more focused ideals.

If some of these designs didn't pander to the current trend, then noone would be interested and they would fall short before getting off the ground, so despite disagreements I have with them I understand we are building something, and therefore am happy to contribute.

I am wondering that too

sounds like an empower yourself mantra

Which brings me back to my points, ignore how I am saying what I am saying, I get frustrated and speak out of tone as much as anyone else on here, but the message I am promoting is one of pro woman, pro feminist, and certainly pro honesty.

Demonising man and victimising/infantilising women doesn't help anyone.

*Scientific evidence would disagree with your opinion that catcalling is designed to make 'women feel small and scared'.

Ask yourself what type of guy has catcalled you? What was the situation? and why did he do it?*

Sorry, I was expecting a magic answer. Not 'tell them to sod off, so you're not a victim'.

I don't feel victimised if someone cat calls me, just massively pissed off that they interrupted my day with their banal macho bollocks.

Nobody is demonising men. Nor is anyone infantilising women.

When you come up with a sure fire way of distinguishing between the type of men who just don't know how to stop blurting out stupid comments and the type of men who become violent and abusive if their comments are responded to in the way they desire them to be, then and only can anyone suggest that women are wrong to be wary of men who do this.

That isn't demonising men, that is asking men to take responsibility for the way their words and actions are likely to be perceived, based on the available evidence and the way women are socialised from young girls to be wary of strangers. Which, while incorrect information (because we should be far more wary of relatives and family friends) it informs women's lives and cannot therefore be rationalised away as infantilisation.

It is also true that women who fail to follow the social rules laid down for how they interact with strange men, who are then harmed by those men, are blamed for it because they failed to "know" that those men would harm them.

Pizanfan

I think the reason people thought you may not be female, is because there is very little one can do about street harassment. You either ignore it and let it stand, or retaliate and risk further abuse.

Good post Xenophile.

Deffo Xenophile

God, it's not complicated.

how can the evidence be collected on cat calling

is it men admitting to cat calling

a group of men being watched (which they will know about) and studied how they behave

is the research evidence from girls (yes its not just women) and women's experiences

I don't think anyone would deny that how groups play our can be very different depending on how many people are in the group, who is in the group, ages, class, ethnic background, religion and so on

Pizan, your only contribution to this thread has been to derail, insult, dismiss, minimise, and patronise. I don't think I've ever read anything like it, and that's not a compliment.

Op - I know what you mean. I agree about catcalling (like the majority of posters on this thread), but there is also something uniquely depressing about women colluding in their own oppression by seeking to silence other women who challenge that oppression. It's very dispiriting, and scary, so I understand why it would make you feel as it did.

its basically the same old line

how were you behaving Miss/Ms/Mrs ..........

Began to lose me here...

*Ok I see your POV, and will ask you to read a book named Group dynamics, by Forsyth (5th edition).

That would be a decent start, and then we can move on to more nuanced literature?*

and finished me off nicely by saying catcalling had nothing to do with women.

Xenophile

The flaw with your argument there, is when applied to other ethnicities or religions its automatically racist or xenphobic!

If I was to claim that I feared all muslims who openly practice Islam, because you can't prove to me which just practice Islam, and which will commit terror attacks then I would rightly be called xenophobic. It's exactly the same thing.

Datun

I disagree, there is a lot we can do against street harrassment, we just have to empower women enough that they deal with it correctly. As I said previously I had 2 men sent from their jobs for shouting off a roof, by calmly and civily explaining to the foreman that if he didn't deal with the unacceptable behaviour on the spot, I would ensure his boss did.

The reason Strictly doesn't consider unwarranted groping by females sexual assault, is because of his view that he is more powerfull than women, and therefore the incident was not truly an offence. Well thats wrong, it was an offence, he was groped innapropriately, at his place of work, by a member of the opposite sex, that is assault.

Sorry for your experiences Amy

No, it is not the same thing at all. We are not socialised to fear Muslims from birth. Muslims don't kill two women a week in the and a woman a day in the USA.

The two things aren't even passingly comparable and you are grasping at straws to even suggest they might be. I actually find it quite offensive that you would bring your racism and compare it to women's rational wariness of strange men behaving in this way.

As I said previously I had 2 men sent from their jobs for shouting off a roof, by calmly and civily explaining to the foreman that if he didn't deal with the unacceptable behaviour on the spot, I would ensure his boss did.

Well yes, that's something I completely agree with.

Also in answer to the OP I think cat calling IS becoming less socially acceptable. That why it's getting a lot of air time/debate. It's been mooted as a hate crime in Yorkshire (I think it's Yorkshire). Women are becoming more likely to call it out as it gets more questioned.

"we just have to empower women enough so they can deal with it correctly"

In general, with codes of conducts for construction workers etc, harassment by men whilst they are working on a project with a clear way to.complain has gone down, I believe.

The men who Amy has described didn't have any supervisors, and some moved to verbal insults when she didn't respond.

How would you empower her?

Datun

If innapropriate sexually explicit behaviour was solely to do with subjegating women, then why, in the absence of women, do men still do it to other men? (Prison system).

If I was to claim that I feared all muslims who openly practice Islam, because you can't prove to me which just practice Islam, and which will commit terror attacks then I would rightly be called xenophobic. It's exactly the same thing.

And anyway I don't fear all men. I don't even fear all men on building sites. Doesn't cross my mind until they start the process.

If innapropriate sexually explicit behaviour was solely to do with subjegating women

I'm not saying it is!

Xenophile

My racism? What racism is that? Thats a disgracefull accusation, and pretty ignorant comment!

You're not making sense, now you want to talk murder statistics in a discussion about cat calling?

OK lets talk murder, last year 336 men and 186 women were murdered, so your right, in the UK women are being killed every other day, as opposed to men who are killed at nearly 1 per day.

In an honest discussion, you can't call men the devil, but fail to mention that most victims are men!

Since when is it the job of women to stop men being dicks to eachother??

Datun

'and finished me off nicely by saying catcalling had nothing to do with women.'

You get why this would make me think that though, as your opposing my view that cat calling is about power, not solely about women?

"You're not making sense, now you want to talk murder statistics in a discussion about cat calling? " do you really not understand why Xenophile has mentioned those stats? Really?