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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Cat calling

515 replies

Cocklodger · 14/11/2016 13:36

I'm sure this one has been done to death, I don't frequent the board often tbh.
now I hate catcalling. I'm sure every woman has or will experience it. Its not pleasant. It makes me angry and sometimes it scares me,
But today I've seen a post on FB (with someone of a similar view point to me) being ripped into, because
''Its just a compliment''
she's a ''fun sucker''
''I bet she would've REALLY just asked for his number''... Those comments came from women.
Now I, being me decided to defend this person and found the same comments hurled at me. I've now just left it because I've gotten to the point where I can no longer even try to come up with a coherent argument. I have also received personal insults(about my appearance and the fact I'm obviously a bit fat since I was recently pregnant baby under 2wks old)
i just didn't realize how acceptable it was, I genuinely thought it was wildly noted as pretty fucking annoying (If I'm being generous)
I don't even know what to say.
Wtf is wrong with people?
Can someone please reassure me that I'm not wrong? I know I sound bloody pathetic but for some reason finding out how acceptable it is has actually quite scared and shaken me a lot....

OP posts:
venusinscorpio · 15/11/2016 19:13

Yonic those were great examples you gave of benefitting in subtle ways at the expense of women. I was trying to think of something similar but couldn't articulate what I wanted to say.

Datun · 15/11/2016 19:15

It's in the bones.

That got me, pan

Xenophile · 15/11/2016 19:16

And yes, also great examples from Yonic.

YonicProbe · 15/11/2016 19:18

Thanks venus

growapear · 15/11/2016 19:33

Your tone is horrific, growapear. Patronising and dismissive plus expecting women to explain everything for you..

I didn't call anyone a fucker though. Nor did i suggest you were rude or patronising, what you do is called playing the man not the ball.

win praise from the girls

Ah yes, what all men want eh ? .... I kind of expected this was what you were really getting at.

Taxi drivers are not advantaged greatly as I see it by a fear of men by women. Women already choose to request female drivers because they don't trust men.

A women who is too frightened to sit next to me so I get two seats, woot, what a treat that is.

I dunno why I bother actually, because I know you will say that by having any opinion about it I will be making it about ME. I think now is a good time to call it a day here, thanks for the posters who have engaged, I will think about what you have said doesn't mean i have to agree with it.

YonicProbe · 15/11/2016 19:46

What a surprise, you have minimised my examples, despite asking for them, and ignored Pan's.

What a grim mindset you have, pear. Yet again.

FreshwaterSelkie · 15/11/2016 19:49

I'm not sure if my husband is aware of the amount of street harassment I get. Because a) mostly it doesn't happen when he's with me and b) because women often don't talk to men about it , because it's so commonplace and everyday that it feels like saying "Hey, did you know I breathe air? How about that?" and c) even if we do talk about it, we often minimise it or laugh it off. I know I did. The first time it happened when my husband was with me, some guy shouted across the road that I had great legs and he wouldn't mind a go, I LAUGHED IT OFF, because I was so embarrassed and I didn't want a scene. Husband is not alpha male type, but would have said something to the other guy if he'd have thought I was upset.

I don't think I ever bothered to explain to him that I'd deliberately minimised the situation so as to defuse it, because it's second nature. It started when I was thirteen years old, and I'm now in my mid forties and I still get it. Maybe I'll explain to him what happened that day, and how the background of thirty years of this explains how I experience the world. Could be an interesting conversation.

growapear · 15/11/2016 20:11

sigh....don't agree = "minimised". There is a spare seat next to me, rather than sit in it a women chooses to stand. Despite being "grim" and a "fucker" I am aware that sitting is more comfortable, especially on a moving bus than standing is. You think it is a benefit to me that people do not wish to sit next to me, because they are scared of me. And what's with all the personal insults that get banded about on here ? I believe I have not directly insulted anyone - shall I report these posts ? I believe I would have been banned if I spoke to you the way I have been spoken to.

growapear · 15/11/2016 20:17

Freshwater - I do understand what you are saying. Men are told by some women that they like getting compliments. Men see women go to an effort in dressing in a way that reveals parts of their body, makes their hair look pretty or whatever. You were with your husband, the guy obviously was not trying to pull you - is there any chance he genuinely thought he was giving you (or more likely your husband) a compliment ? I'm not defending it, but that is what some men think, that women's appearance is for their benefit, they think if you are showing off your legs (but perhaps you had loose trousers on, I don't know) you are doing it for them. I honestly wouldn't know where to begin on explaining to them WHY women go to such efforts to look good, because I admit I do not understand it. I would say that it was not for their benefit specifically, and I do understand also that its not to have "nice tits doll" shouted at them and that if they didn't go to any effort they might get abuse from the same men for looking ugly.

venusinscorpio · 15/11/2016 20:18

Did you read freshwater's post, grow? Try listening a bit more rather than explaining why we're wrong (I deliberately didn't use the word "mansplain" because I'm trying to engage with you in good faith).

FreshwaterSelkie · 15/11/2016 20:20

I just ran my husband through thirty years of street harassment, or at least the highlights of it that I actually remember - the worst stuff. The flashing, the being wanked on, the times I was threatened, the times I was touched.

He is horrified. He said "I'm amazed you leave the house". He's aware that women are harassed in the street, but he'd never joined the dots to think that I was a harassee - I think he assumed that we are decent people, he doesn't harass women in the streets, therefore I probably didn't get harassed. And as blokes go, he's pretty enlightened (wouldn't have married him otherwise). We'd just never talked about it. He knows now.

venusinscorpio · 15/11/2016 20:20

Cross post, but you're not getting it. Whatever the man thinks, the net effect is the same for the woman being harassed in the street.

venusinscorpio · 15/11/2016 20:22

That was to grow, though I hope was clear from the context.

FreshwaterSelkie · 15/11/2016 20:24

" is there any chance he genuinely thought he was giving you (or more likely your husband) a compliment ?"

Well if he did think that, he can fuck off because he was DEAD WRONG. That's the point, pear, he assumed his need to give a "compliment" overrode my need to just get on with my fucking day without his input.

This is not tricky stuff. It's being explained very clearly for you, but you're just not getting it.

venusinscorpio · 15/11/2016 20:25

And yes IME it does shock men when they realise their loved ones get this. Which is another reason women often downplay it.

growapear · 15/11/2016 20:31

I will admit that my thoughts in women spending lots of men and time on their appearance and that some women do like getting compliments on their appearance is probably confused, but I also know that I would never make any sort of comment about a women other than my wife's appearance. I don't believe I'm trying to tell anyone they are wrong to feel anything Venus.

Xenophile · 15/11/2016 20:32

Exactly Selkie. The man's intentions behind what he's done are immaterial. The effect is the same whether he thought he was being complimentary or revelling in being an arse.

growapear · 15/11/2016 20:32

Lots of money even..

scallopsrgreat · 15/11/2016 20:34

Sorry to go back a bit (RL got in the way) but grow: You're the one making the leap that anyone who doesn't follow any advice you might give should be "blamed" if they didn't agree with you, and yet I'm the one who twists things. I said the absolute opposite of that. But hey ho.

And no you didn't just disagree with Yonic's example. You disagreed and minimised.

Do you truly think that this guy was giving her husband a compliment and how would that even be better??? She isn't her husband's property. Unless of course you see women as just an attractive appendage to men? From your subsequent comments I'm thinking you might.

If the guy had meant it as a compliment a) he wouldn't have yelled it across a street and b) he wouldn't have used the expression "have a go". That is treating someone as their sexual object. And even before that why did he think it was OK to interrupt Freshwater's day without invitation when she was minding her own business?

In fact your whole response to Freshwater is women blaming shite.

FreshwaterSelkie · 15/11/2016 20:34

Absolutely, venus.

There is that element of nurturing men's feelings. And it's hard to talk about these things without having to shore it up in Not All Men, for the sake of protecting hurt feelings like grows who doesn't think he should be lumped in with the nasty men.

SpeakNoWords · 15/11/2016 20:36

But surely you know a compliment is not done by shouting at someone in the street? And it doesn't matter why or if women spend a lot of money on what they look like (many don't btw), men still shouldn't shout things at them as they go about their business.

YonicProbe · 15/11/2016 20:40

Feel free to report me if you think I'm being an arse, Pear.

I thought you were going though. Hey ho.

growapear · 15/11/2016 20:41

speak

I know that, yes....but the sort of man who would shout sexually aggressive remarks across the street clearly does not. He may, as I say, have thought he was signalling to her husband that approved of his wife. Your contention is that his only purpose was to make her feel shit and all I'm saying is that this may or may not have been what he wanted. Perhaps he was looking for a fight ?

scallopsrgreat · 15/11/2016 20:42

The first sexual harassment I remember was when I was 12/13. It was summer and I was wearing shorts. Nothing special. Just shorts and a t-shirt. I was also pushing my bike up a steep hill (one of many reasons why I was wearing shorts on that day). A bloke 30-40 yrs older than me felt it necessary to 'complement' me on my legs and how I would break hearts when I was older.

I wasn't dressed for him. I didn't know him. Yet supposedly I "looked good". How, that day, was I supposed to not look good growapear? Perhaps stay indoors?

Women are not here to be judged by you.

growapear · 15/11/2016 20:44

Well you came back tonic, hey ho indeed, if people are posting stuff they maybe want me to read ( not saying they are doing specifically for my benefit) then it seems rude to ignore it, although in my case it simply appears that whatever I post is rude and misconstrued as me being in favour of harassing women on the street, despite my repeated assertions that I have never done it have no plans, this far, to start at this age.