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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paris Lee talking at MN - thread 2

268 replies

shinynewusername · 11/11/2016 07:49

1st thread here

MN has invited Paris Lee to speak at its Blogging event.

Meanwhile, actual women are being silenced.

OP posts:
FRETGNIKCUF · 11/11/2016 11:03

Paris Lees, like other people born male whether they stay male presenting or not are never held to account like women.

Datun · 11/11/2016 11:04

is as clear as meconium

Arf.

GinAndTunic · 11/11/2016 11:08

Very good and pertinent points, VincentVL. Thank you.

Stormwhale · 11/11/2016 11:09

Poor move on mns part. I just wish they would show their support to the women who find the words of pl disgusting. Instead they give this person a platform to spout their vile nonsense.

Sabistick · 11/11/2016 11:11

MN is between a rock and a hard place, I see that .
This thread is part of a necessary debate but it is still part of a closed forum. We talk between internet friends so I am not suggesting conversations to be taken into other forms,( but lets face it Mailonline mines MN shamelessly
For copy filler). My question is, are we still silenced when it comes to showing our disapproval of the trans activists and how they are the apparent thought police. How many women would allude to this on their f/b,twitter or whatever? Sadly, I wouldn't, but it is shaming.
I was watching Sam Harris on YouTube, talking about the reasons why white America voted for Trump, it's worth watching. His view was it was the liberal left that ate itself. Maybe that's what women's sensitivities have lead us .

mirandayardley · 11/11/2016 11:20

I think the problem here that justinemumsnet is missing is that Lees's success as a campaigner is measured in their success in securing rights for males at the expense of rights of girls and women (by advocating for males to be given rights not as males, but as females) and enforcing the cultural hierarchical gender role of women as subservient to men.

Thus Paris Lees's success as a campaigner is measurable in terms of Lees's campaigns in opposition to the rights of women.

CaesiumTime · 11/11/2016 11:23

Yes. Exactly, mirandayardley

Thank you.

VincentVL · 11/11/2016 11:24

I think all of these businesses just expect women to eat shit tbh. Mumsnet, Dove, Unilever, whoever. We are told that the target demographic for a product matters but look what is happening here, keeps happening everywhere. A thousand plus posts from mostly women, im going to assume mostly mums, saying that we are insulted and outraged by Paris Lees writing about women and their attacks on women, and insulted and outraged at Mumsnet inviting Paris Lees to speak about 'blogging for good' in light of all their gross, misogynist writing.
Paris Lees promotes the no platforming of female activists for women's rights on the basis that they have at some point, maybe even years and years ago, accurately distinguished between male and female humans and suggested the former cant become the latter just through wishing, declaring, or even through surgery and hormone treatment.
Why is mumsnet continuing to give Paris Lees a platform? How much of a hypocrite is Paris Lees to take it, knowing that hundreds of mumsnet members think Lees is a just another sexist bloke in a woman costume?

VincentVL · 11/11/2016 11:26

Yes, mirandayardley. I dont think Justine is missing it though, I think she is collaborating with it for her own purposes.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 11/11/2016 11:29

Hey Miranda, nice to see you back here

PinkiePiesCupcakes · 11/11/2016 11:33

This Week:
Paris Lees given the chair at MN Blogfest.

Next Week:
Nigel Farage discusses the positive effects of immigration.

Week After:
Jeremy Clarkson discusses conflicts in the work place and how to resolve them.

Following Week:
end of the world

venusinscorpio · 11/11/2016 11:33

Very weirdly this thread has just disappeared off my TIO. Just this one. I had to go back to active threads, was thinking it had been deleted! Now I see it was because my earlier post was deleted.

Mozfan1 · 11/11/2016 11:35

pinkie trump is president elect of the USA, none of those would surprise me anymore Grin

venusinscorpio · 11/11/2016 11:37

Heads up, we're definitely not allowed to discuss PL's genital status.

SpeckledyBanana · 11/11/2016 11:45

What Miranda said.

VincentVL · 11/11/2016 11:47

What about mentioning their chromosomal or reproductive arrangement? Is that all unmentionable too?

So many things women arent allowed to say. What a contradiction, how much Paris is allowed to say versus how much women are allowed to say.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 11/11/2016 12:00

We are being deleted for calling a male person 'he'.

We are being deleted for wondering if a male person has a penis

We are deleted for calling a person who speaks about women in a misogynistic manner, a misogynist

What is the new language that we are to use?

It really needs to be spelled out so we can get with the programme. And we need regular updates and to stay alert, as it can change anytime and if we don't know, we will be a bigot and hence, deleted.

IfTheCapFitsWearIt · 11/11/2016 12:05

Oh right, so we can't say the emperor has no clothes on?

I have a vagina, dh has a penis, Germaine Greer has a vagina, Donald Trump has a penis, The Queen has a vagina, Garyson Perry has a penis............. I could go on......

CaesiumTime · 11/11/2016 12:06

I have a vagina.

FRETGNIKCUF · 11/11/2016 12:09

It's no coincidence that uber platformed Paris Sleaze represents what they think is a male fantasy of a woman. Not many straight men fantasise about a trasnwoman however She is a walking porn star cliche and really has little understanding about how to be a real woman, just what the wank mags think women should be.

HairyLittlePoet · 11/11/2016 12:15

Blogfest in twenty sixteen
Curated by lovely Justine
Gives us insight
On women who write
(From those who were born with a peen)

“How to get women’s voice heard”
Y chromosomes are preferred
A woman with balls
Who loves the catcalls
Can be a misogynist turd

Gender is now just a choice
Women have got a new voice
And this one’s a keeper
A whole octave deeper
(On account of it comes out the boys)

So shut up and listen, and learn
This helpful advice to not spurn
This person who hates you
Will now educate you
On why sex is not your concern

Start up a lovely petition
Give women a redefinition
And one of the guys
With a seven inch surprise
Gets transferred to Eastwood Park Prison

I’m sure that the inmates weren’t sick
Banged up with a violent dick
Hurrah for campaigns
With such ill-gotten gains
You too could campaign like a prick!

Dear Justine, you’ve plain lost the plot
A terrible choice for that spot
Hear our dissent
PL represents
Everything women are not

FreshwaterSelkie · 11/11/2016 12:24

Well rhymed, Hairy!

VincentVL · 11/11/2016 12:25

*Gender is now just a choice
Women have got a new voice
And this one’s a keeper
A whole octave deeper
(On account of it comes out the boys)

So shut up and listen, and learn
This helpful advice to not spurn
This person who hates you
Will now educate you
On why sex is not your concern *

FirstShinyRobe · 11/11/2016 12:26

I'm just going to re-post this amazing contribution from TalkingintheDark on every trans thread from now on.

"Sporadicus yes, it does come down to who decides what is acceptable to say.

Who is entitled/qualified to define the meaning of the word "woman"?

When I first discovered the trans threads, I was initially baffled by how anyone could even be suggesting that transwomen are actually women, when the biological truth that they're not is so patently obvious.

It took me a while to realise that the argument hinges on the TRAs having assumed the right to redefine the meaning of the word woman. They have decided that woman no longer means adult human female, but "anyone who identifies as a woman, who 'feels like' a woman inside."

Leaving aside the obvious problem that there is actually no definition of what a woman actually is in the TRAs' versions, this is the battle ground now. TRAs maintain that the essence of womanhood is a real thing, regardless of male biology. And in that belief system it is hateful to say TW aren't women.

We have not given our consent to this new definition. We weren't even asked our opinion. Our experience of living as women under a patriarchal, oppressive system for generation upon generation, our experience of battling sexism, being feminists, fighting for equality and safety - it all counts for precisely nothing in the face of the TRAs' assertion that being a woman is a feeling.

So by whose authority did they twist language to make it suit their agenda? Why did they feel entitled to do so, without so much as a by your leave? What makes them think that as people born male (and no, not fucking assigned male at birth, BORN biologically, reproductively male) they are not only qualified but MORE qualified than us to say what it is to be a woman?

Not by my authority, that's for sure. I see this as just another marker on the continuum of male violence against women, where male people take what they want from female people regardless of whether the female people consent or not, because they can. Because even MtTs, far from being the most oppressed group on the planet, are still infinitely more powerful than women.

MNHQ, if there were a group of MRAs campaigning to have DV decriminalised, I doubt very much you would give them any kind of platform, much less a chairing role on the subject of being a force for good. But this bigotry and misogyny goes unchallenged and is even feted and held up as an inspiration - even though it is every bit as malign and dangerous as the "hypothetical" group of MRAs.

Men have been taking what they want from women without our consent since time immemorial. Now, under the guise of "equality" they want to take our very identities and access to all our safe spaces and services and awards that have been created by feminism, by the struggles of WOMEN, as compensation for our inferior status in society. They are even claiming ownership of feminism now!!! And yet we are being cast as the bigots for resisting them; prevented in very many ways from even speaking and being heard.

By whose authority, MNHQ? Yours, now, apparently."

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 11/11/2016 12:37

Thanks for reposting that shiny. Such an eloquent piece of writing. Bravo talking. More please.

Hairy That's excellent! More from you too please

So many clever, brilliant posters on this thread

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