We will see a MTF transsexual US President before we see a female one.

[DragonHorse]

I'm entirely serious. My money's on Caitlyn Jenner.

No they're not, they're men. Caitlyn Jenner is a man.

Get thee to an introductory biology class, there's a love.

As studies have shown that the violence displayed by MtT AND FtT individuals is about on the same level as that of men,

Is that true vestal ? How is it explained? I thought there was a slight increase in violence for FtT (but mostly without the equipment to do much about it). And that MtT committed crimes at the same rate as men (whilst being facilitated by being allowed to access women).

I'm not sure the exact stats to qualify, but can have a go at explaining the how. Ftt are on testosterone so exhibit "roid rage", whereas Mtt have the male socialisation that is not erased with female hormones.

(Ftt - As the testosterone is at higher than their 'natural' levels, even if it would not be considered a high amount in a male)

Yellow - it isn't just about peeing. What about changing rooms? If you are a parent, how would you feel about your young daughter changing next to a MtF with male genitalia?
In hospitals the sexes are also segregated because men and women can have different illnesses; I was in recently for uteral issues; where would you put a MtF who has prostate cancer, for example?
If someone has a penis he is a man. A transwoman a man.

I would have to find the study, but am pretty sure I remember that aspect right. It makes sense to me, since becoming a worse human being (=more violent) is usually easier than becoming a better one (=less violent).

One thing to take into consideration is that transmen intentionally want to get male socialisation and, indeed, "act male". Which means that they have much more motivation to be aggressive than men who grew up in an environment where solving problems with violence is considered uncivilised.

It is possible that the study didn't make any differences between the severity of crimes (just like these ridiculous domestic violence studies where a woman slapping a man is counted the same as a man breaking a woman's jaw) and aggression towards other (trans)men and sexual violence against women.

But all in all, I can say that I am not particularly keen on sharing facilities with transmen. The internalized misogyny alone would make them unpleasant to be around.

They can have an extra room, is what I am saying. Especially since, with transmen who "pass", it would be difficult to tell them apart from actual men. Who of course would be happy to walk into women's spaces not even having to bother with a dress. (Of course, the likes of Danielle Muscato would like to do so while claiming to be transwomen, so we are now at a point where even self-identification as transman wouldn't be worse than transwacktivist agenda.)

I'd infinitely prefer separate spaces for all trans, more safe for everyone concerned. But if we had to use the current set up based on biological sex, I'd take that in the interim.

Clearly there is a lot of women who have a problem with trans women (mtt) occupying women's only spaces. My opinion is that these women's concerns should be listened to and valued, not shut down and dismissed.

I am a biological male who presents as a woman, to varying degrees. Some days I present fully as a woman, makeup hair etc. other days wearing women's clothes while not covering up that I am male. Other times dressed as you would expect a man to dress. Irrespective of how I present myself and to what extent, I am still a man. I have never once used a woman's bathroom or changing area. I have survived. If I have had a problem using men's areas while presenting as a woman (and I have, and it is not pleasant) then that is a problem that men are accountable for.

The solution is not to validate those threatening men by removing trans people such as myself out of their spaces, but to deal with those threatening men. The solution to me feeling threatened is not to put myself in a place that makes women feel threatened by my presence.

Thank you ripples

If you use mens spaces, what happens to make it unpleasant?

The really annoying thing is I doubt many women have an issue with considerate people such as you using the ladies. This stupid self-I'D legislation means there is a temptation to throw the baby out with the bathwater and not allow any trans people in to keep out the pervs.
I've said it before but the current climate has forced me to draw a line where the status quo was working OK I think. But maybe the status quo isn't ok for trans people. I can't get a sense of whether most trans people feel there is a need for changes to the law or whether it's being driven by trans activists

Oh and for clarity by pervs I mean men pretending to be trans to access vulnerable women. Not trans women.

Most of the time the unpleasantness is down to my own fears, that something will happen. Most of the time something bad doesn't happen. On the handful of occasions where something bad did happen, it was usually verbal, being called a freak, being called gay (I am gay anyway so that didn't bother me). If they didn't realise I was male, then it was usually rather funny - "why is that woman in here?" -

I have been however physically assaulted twice. Once in the bathroom, the other time later in the evening when a guy punched me as I was stood at the bar, saying that I deserve to be beaten up for being a "paedo". The guy who punched me at the bar was dealt with by the bouncers and I was ok. The time it happened in the bathroom however was more scary in a way even though it didn't come to blows. He just grabbed me by the throat, said I make him feel physically sick, pushed me into the wall and then walked out.

I went back to my friends and then we quickly left the place.

you're a brave person, ripples. You appear to exemplify the (imo excellent) idea of expanding the limits of your own sex rather than infringing on the other.

Would you mind me asking, for the sake of clarity do you identify as trans or as a non-gender conforming man or something else - maybe just as you - and do you have any preference how people refer to you?

Thank you Errol. I no longer identify as trans because of what has happened to that word and it's meaning no longer resonates with me. I will use it as a descriptive now and again, just because it does best explain me in simple terms, but to my friends they just use my male name.

Which In a social setting is the kind of name that can actually be male or female anyway.

I don't identify as non binary - I don't believe that that that exists and is just a cop out. I identify as a gay man who likes to dress in women's clothes. For me it's pretty much as simple as that.

Pronouns - I prefer he. I was in a salon yesterday morning having my nails done and all the time I was a man in there and under no illusion that I was a woman. So it is appropriate to refer to me as "he". I don't deny I am male. I'm just a male who likes things that are usually associated with females.

Gosh that's horrible. Poor you
I don't know what we do about these horrible men.

The solution is not to validate those threatening men by removing trans people such as myself out of their spaces, but to deal with those threatening men

YY!

The solution is not to validate those threatening men by removing trans people such as myself out of their spaces, but to deal with those threatening men

Goddd. I would march my arse off for this.

Probably, because they can't get pregnant.

ripples101

Would you mind me asking if you're in favour of separate facilities for transpeople or non conformers who are uncomfortable?

And, if so, what is the objection to using the accessible facilities?

And I meant to say too it's bloody awful that you get treated like that.

Separate facilities would be too difficult to do, not practical and expensive.

If we live in an accepting world, then let's begin by encouraging men to be accepting, because in my experience, it's men who need that encouragement.

This is not a woman's problem to sort out. Yet it does serm to me that it is women who are being asked to deal with and accommodate it.

Fuck that. Sort the men out who have the problem. I know 100% that I would feel a lot more safe being myself if it wasn't for men and how men react to me.

I'm actually sick of it all. Men get excused all the time yet they are the ones who cause all the fucking problems.

Sorry / excuse me for swearing

"If we live in an accepting world, then let's begin by encouraging men to be accepting, because in my experience, it's men who need that encouragement. "

Makes sense.

This is not a woman's problem to sort out. Yet it does serm to me that it is women who are being asked to deal with and accommodate it.

Yes. But unfortunately, I can't see this going away any time soon.

Swearing about men is acceptable on the feminist board
God it sucks. I really feel for you.

ripples101, it is good that you accept that you are male, and do not insert yourself into female spaces. Sadly males do sometimes threaten and assault other males if they do not conform to the male sex role. The reason for this of course, is because males want a clear way to distinguish which sex is the dominant sex, and which is the submissive sex. When this becomes disputed, by males assuming the female sex role, other males get angry. As it threatens the illusion men have told themselves; that the hierarchy between males and females is destined.

You are right to combat males aggression towards them, sex role non conforming males need to challenge males instance that performing the female sex role makes them less of a man. Ultimately males need to stop claiming they are "presenting as a woman" or are "trans" etc, and everyone should call them by female pronouns. As that only further entrenches males (and therefore society's) belief that males and females are destined to fulfil dominant/submissive roles.

The main problem is most males are taking the easy way out, by claiming to be a form of "woman". And since males are socialised to believe females should care-take them, as a mother would her child. Many men think it is women's responsibly to solve these real problems males have with other males. Of course females are raised to prioritise males over ourselves, many Mtt's exploit this aspect of females socialisation. They call us "unkind", "bigots" etc, when we prioritise females and refuse to prioritise males, this guilts many women into giving into them. It needs to stop, and males that are doing it need to be called out on it.