Why do girls let the boys get away with it?

[Weneedarevolution]

My DS is doing A levels. In geography they have been put in a group of boys and girls - 5 students I think. They have to complete a project. The girls have organised and allocated th work, my DS has minimal work to do. He is GOOD at geography his input would help the girls. He is quite happy to let this happen as he can benefit from their efforts while getting on with other work.

His argument is that if they had asked him he would have gladly helped but they organised it and he just agreed. I really believe if the girls asked he and his friends would do the work to a high standard.

This has happened through out his school career, he and his friends almost expect it now.

So who is to blame the girls for not asking or the boys for letting it happen?

Well my DS sees an equal partnership at home, he knows if his dad tries to not do his share he will be vigorously challenged

That is not an equal partnership. An equal wouldn't ever try not to do something, and in an equal partnership you would not need to challenge.

How amazing that you can see not just into my workplace, but into my head, too, Lass!

Our experiences clearly differ. It would be great if you could grant me the courtesy of having correctly understood my own life experiences, and I'll do the same to you.

You are ignoring my point that unsatisfactory behaviour by men results in you attributing it to their being "man children".

What is the equivalent glib phrase for the 3 women situation I described?

Or would you treat them as 3 individuals? What if Ms Lazy was Mr Lazy? Would he be a man child?

Selkie's description goes a bit beyond laziness, don't you think, Lass?

Ah, well, it was a longer period than usual of enjoying your posts. TTFN.

It's funny that Lass complains that when a man does something poorly Selkie according to her sees it as being "symptomatic of male behaviour" because that's exactly how women and girls are judged by society as a whole. One woman does something wrong and it's "oh women can't...", "women are useless at..."

No Amy I am doing exactly the opposite of what you are suggesting.

I'm far as I'm concerned there good workers and bad workers - some are men- some are women. It's Selkie who has determined there is special class of bad men workers.

I said nothing whatsoever about tarring other women by the behaviour of the 2 specific women I mentioned. Where did you get that from?

I asked if there is a neat little phase to encapsulate their behaviour equivalent to "man child".

Is there a neat little phrase that matches the lazy, manipulative behaviour of Ms Lazy who drags her easily influenced co- worker down?

I didn't say you were doing it, I said you were accusing Selkie of judging men in a way women are judged (one woman makes a mistake and she's deemed to represent all women).

There are many phrases which commonly demean women for all sorts of things. Adult women are constantly referred to as "girls" so there's probably no need for a "man-child" equivalent, women are always children.

So who is to blame the girls for not asking or the boys for letting it happen?

The boys. You know that. You should be talking to your DS seriously about his laziness.

We socialise boys to accept women/girls to be their handmaidens. Then we pay the boys/men more.

Why should they be proactive? The project is done and they have got other work done as well.

So it's expected that the girls will b e proactive?

My DS and his friends are baffled as to why the girls don't just ask them to do more.

Bloody hell, female patriarchal mothers. We're lost & doomed. YABU

Custardshoes have you read the thread?

The OP is challenging patriarchal behaviour.

Selkie had identified a class of people identified as "man child" which "we" are all supposed to have met.

I have employees, men and women, some perform excellently, some are good/average, some are problematic. I don't distinguish them on the basis of their chromosomes and assume poor performance is based on having a particular set of chromosomes.

Women who are proactive are often seen as 'bossy' or a 'nightmare to work for'. I once worked where the bosses were women and they were referred to (not to their faces) as the witches coven.

I really, really don't care enough about this one to carry on setting fire to the straw (wo)men you're constructing of my inability to see bad in any women, Lass. Crack on, I'm out.

*my supposed inability.

My inability to post a whole sentence? now, that exists.

"really, really don't care enough about this one to carry on setting fire to the straw (wo)men you're constructing"

Nicely put.

Why, zank you, darlink

I'm not sure that using terms like 'manchild' or talking about 'manflu' are particularly helpful because they do depend on gender stereotypes so much. However while I don't think I've particularly met men at work who take a lazy passive approach that I'd describe as childlike, there certainly seems to be a hell of a lot of feigned helplessness when it comes to household and childcare tasks. Far too many women who find their partners more of a burden than a helpmate.

By putting the blame onto boys for girls managing badly, and requiring/expecting them to deal witg it, or be called deficient, and by taking the responsibility fir failure away from the girls (by re-labelling it failyre of the boys) ypu might think you are bullying the hateful boys and protecting the girls, but in fact you are taking away their responsibility and agency, ie. saying the boys are responsible for success, and blameworthy for failure. Which gives all the power and responsibility and accountability to the boys.

In fact most of the indignance on this thread actually is fighting within the bag of patriarchal thinking, and leaving all the agency and responsibility with the boys.

Thats not feminist at all!

And that's because so many women are people pleasers and raised to be from birth - as we see from the example in your OP.

My daughter is not a people pleaser. She often does end up organising group projects and doing more than her fair share of work. As I said up thread (and OP did not respond to) she does not do that to "please the boys" She often calls both boys and girls on their lack of input but realistically she has learned that if she wants to get a good grade on a project, she needs to do more than her fair share. And it isn't her job to encourage them to deliver work or offer to do more work.

Nothing to do with her being a people pleaser (as if) or not wanting to upset a boy (jesus h christ).

Everything to do with her caring about her grade, the quality of her work, her fellow hard workers not being left in any more shit than they are already.

But yes everything to do with how we raised her - to be responsible for her work and do as well as she can and contribute more than her fair share when possible.

OP you seem to think every boy is like your son and all the girls are just doing the work for them. In reality I expect there are groups where the girls say (like my dd often does) "Oh I have Max and Emma and Alex and Josh in my group so it will be easy to complete". I suspect plenty of boys are contributing just fine and taking leadership roles.

The girls are not responsible for boys - or girls not stepping up. OP for gods sake talk to your son about why is ok with this status quo. Explain to him that when he goes to work and he does similar he will be overlooked and the person who takes control and actually delivers will be recognised, no matter how smart he is. he needs to figure out his strengths, and work out how to work around his weaknesses - like everyone else in the world.

What he doesn't need is someone wondering on his behalf "why do girls let him get away with this?"

My DD is in an A level class with two boys like your son ( he's not called Daniel is he ? ) and two hard working and smart boys .

The girls and decent boys all just ignore the lazy / selfish / entitled boys because they don't think it's their job to train them in team work . Like your son, these boys entertain the fantasy that they smarter than everyone else and dont need to revise.

They are looked down on by the others pupils for their immaturity and bad attitude.

The teachers notice . They are the ones who are writing university references.

Next you will be back lamenting that the boys don't get as many university places as the girls and it's discrimination.

really, really don't care enough about this one to carry on setting fire to the straw (wo)men you're constructing of my inability to see bad in any women, Lass. Crack on, I'm out

Straw man- love it.Such an easy way to end an argument.

Still no answer as to whether there are equivalent terms for man child or man flu. I thought the view on here was gender stereotyping was bad?

OP you seem to think every boy is like your son and all the girls are just doing the work for them. In reality I expect there are groups where the girls say (like my dd often does) "Oh I have Max and Emma and Alex and Josh in my group so it will be easy to complete". I suspect plenty of boys are contributing just fine and taking leadership roles

Except such boys would be accused of ousing their male privilege to dominate the girls.

"Don't be such a girl", "you throw/play/whine/act like a girl" "you're like a couple of women", "you're such an old woman", etc are used all the time. There don't need to be terms like "man child" as "girl"/"woman" is deemed an insult as they are, it's embarrassing enough just to be called one.

Lass you seem to live in a parallel universe. Boys are always praised for being leaders, decisive, showing strength whilst girls who take charge are "bossy", "difficult", "ball breakers" and whatnot.

Lass DOES live in a parallel universe . She is the only woman I know doing her job in her city who believes that there is no discrination in her profession. Including the leader of the professional society .

She's the only woman of her age who didn't experience any misogyny at university . And thinks that anyone who says they did is a liar or brought it on themselves.

She's a flat earther. You won't change her mind.

OP, you might find this link interesting, after your comment on bossy girls.

banbossy.com/