Glamour Magazine allows transwoman to redefine feminism

[MrsJamin]

Call yourself a feminist? Our transgender columnist Juno Dawson's here to see if you really pass the test

And calls women who don't "TERFs". Thanks, Glamour and Jo Elvin, thanks a lot.

thanks Datun took me ages to come up with that one

Oh come now, we all know what it really means to be a women. It means using every waking moment to obsessively think about what you look like and how many people in your vicinity want to insert parts of their body into your body. That's it. Nothing else.

Not doing this, not only excludes you from the womanhood club but, (if you also don't qualify for the manhood club), it actually means you cease to exist in any tangible way.

So I think you lot have some apologizing to To do to Juno et al. Without them showing you the way, you'd all be existential blobs of atoms. Think on that, you bunch of ingrates.

Bloody hell. That's ... Telling isn't it? (The keeping their cocks stuff)

I've never been interested in feminism I've just got on with my life. I found most of the arguments confusing and felt most didn't apply to me as I've rarely felt oppressed because of my gender (only at work when training to use heavy machinery was never offered to me despite being one of the only women to ever use a lawnmower, strimmer and wear a 15kg leaf blower for 8 hours a day) but that article was one of the most outrageous things I've ever read and I must say it has made me less sympathetic towards transgender people and I didn't have much in the first place.

Hasn't he kind of shot himself in the foot? If he is the voice of today's transgender groups he doesn't appear to have done them any favours.

who has made unkind personal remarks? and what were they?

buffy as far as I can see no one from mumsnet has had a go at Juno on Twitter, just told him how it is.

I didn't get blocked for making unkind personal remarks Buffy
I got blocked for pointing out that there are actually quite a lot of documented accounts of men in women's clothes assaulting women in toilets.

I know Buffy but I'm not going to be nice and use 'preferred pronouns' for fuckwits. Fuckwits will have their pronouns provided for them.

Haven't tried to contact him on Twitter though, can't be arsed with that

I didnt get blocked for making unkind personal remarks either....

I don't think unkind personal comments help either tbh especially in discussion with people like Juno. The problem is that such people tend to consider a very wide range of things to be unkind, such as saying "feel free to dress and present however you want to a person with a penis is a man"

One of the comments:

"The bottom line is anyone who is oppresed by gender and is subordinated to men is a woman and needs feminism."

No! Being not-a-man is not the same thing as being a woman!

Stat
Yes the transactivists will find any comment that does not correspond with their delusional ideology unkind.

That article was hateful and I don't need to be nice in response

There are plenty of men oppressed by gender - I'd say men who work in traditionally more female roles such as childcare are oppressed by gender for example as they come up against a huge amount of prejudice and discrimination because they are doing a "woman's job". They're not bloody women though.

TRAs explode with all manner of insults, shouting down any minuscule amount of disagreement to the rhetoric. I agree, it weakens women's arguments to get involved in a slanging match. But, despite it being a massive relief to be able to point out the ridiculousness of the layer upon layer of flaws in the argument, even sticking to irrefutable facts gets you shut down.

Of course, stat, oppression in and of itself doesn't determine the characteristics of the oppressed.

The definition of woman isn't 'someone who is oppressed'.

How many more definitions does he have to try before he can find one that fits both him and women FFS.

Shinynew, I've only just popped back onto this thread and am on my phone so links are a pain. Got to go out for a couple of hours, but will post some links when I get back.

Agree datun, I was agreeing that the comment was bollocks. On the flip side there are arguably some women who are not oppressed by gender- they aren't men either

Put another way, I'm an atheist. If I moved to Saudi Arabia I'm sure I would feel oppressed by Islam, but I wouldn't magically become a Christian just because they're oppressed too.

It's all such nonsense. I have to believe it will reach critical mass and the general public will wake up.

I'd be less worried if it hadn't gained this much traction in the first place.

I was a lurker on here for years until I read the thread about the IOCs guidelines. The blatant injustice just brought me up short.

I asked Juno if they could understand why his column angered and upset women who have lived being a woman their whole lives.

Blocked! Ah well.

Juno doesnt like people to disagree with him.

I keep hoping that the country will reach peak trans soon but every time we approach the crests just seem to get bigger.

Sadly I think the only way we'll ever get real traction is when woman are demanding entry to men's spaces: groups and societies etc and crying discrimination because we feelz like mens. Only then will the public realise how ludicrous this whole thing is

Yes I would like to identify as a man.
Can I please earn 20 per cent more over my lifetime if I slip into a suit?
No I fucking cant.
Feck off Juno

'Sadly I think the only way we'll ever get real traction is when woman are demanding entry to men's spaces: groups and societies etc and crying discrimination because we feelz like mens. Only then will the public realise how ludicrous this whole thing is'

You're assuming society will be vaguely consistent in how they treat transmen and transwomen. They're already not - in the few cases of transmen committing sexual assault, the media has described them as women. In the slightly more cases of transwomen committing assault, the media has also described them as women.