CBBC - just a girl

[kua]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3885922/Parents-slam-damaging-BBC-sex-change-aimed-six-year-olds.html

Someone listened , I didn't think it would be the DM though!

I think there is a valid concern about young children who feel "different" to others watching that show and coming to the conclusion their difference is because they are trans, when actually they could be gay, or autistic, or any of a number of "different".
Internalised homophobia exists and for children so young that sexual attraction is something nebulous and far off, I don't think it's reasonable to expect them to know why they feel different.
When it's all couched in terms of stereotype and "she knew she was a girl because she liked dolls" that makes it worse.

Ripples thank you for posting, not least for reminding us that even thought the transactivists seem to be shouting the loudest right now, certainly doesn't mean all trans people subscribe to their views.

ripples101

I think being gay is more widely accepted than being trans because there is only one reason to be gay, but motivation for being trans seems to have a myriad of reasons.

For what it's worth, the programme is very naive, and given its subject matter, I can understand why so many would be offended by it. It paints a stereotype of gender that I do feel is, rightly so, quite offensive.

I do feel that the trans community have taken this stereotype on board and run with it - this stereotype being - boys play with cars, girls play with dolls. That's one reason why I distance myself from the trans community, because it equates gender identity with biological sex, and for me the two are not automatically related. Women, or men, should not be identified through societal constructs, but rather through anatomy. In this respect, I can present as a woman all day long, but that is it - present. That doesn't make me a woman. It makes me a pretence.

The irony is that I'm not even pretending to be a woman. I'm presenting as a woman, while having no misconceptions that I am actually a man. Whenever anyone refers to me using a female pronoun, I am very quick to correct them!

Datun

I think that is a fair and valid point

ripples, do you think you would still identify as trans if men and women were more able to dress and behave however they wished? Or is there more to it than that?

Ripples. You sound like the kind of trans I've been sharing a loo with for years. And, up until recently, have had zero problem with.

Thanks for posting on here. It's appreciated.

Good question ageingrunner

ripples many accounts of trans children involve gender non-conforming behaviour and that is part of homophobia. Many accounts of children who say they are trans have parents who are more comfortable with a trans heterosexual child than a homosexual child.

That's a great question ageingrunner.

Personally I would love nothing more than people being able to dress how they wished without being labelled at all. Personally I think that is the way forward here - no pressure to be what society seems to expect.

I do however think that it can go deeper for some. To use an example, a boy may well want to play with "girls" toys because that is what he sees girls playing with, and it's through witnessing that that makes him want to copy that. That is, the only reason he wants those toys is because that's what he sees girls playing with.

It's a chicken and egg situation for me. What is so hard to determine is what actually did come first.

Ripples. I get the chicken and egg. And that's a new take. Can you say what it is about females that makes you want to be one. Not a trick question.

Flora

Would love to see these many accounts.

Not disputing you, would just love to read them for myself.

Because if that is the case, then it needs to be seriously addressed.

Please don't feel pressured. It's very refreshing to have a critically thinking trans to ask !

Thanks for answering ripples. I would also love it if everyone could wear whatever they wanted and have hair however they pleased etc. I think society would be much the better for it.

Datun

I don't want to be female. I do however love to dress in what society regards to be female clothes. I do present as a woman - that is dress in a way that society would expect from a woman, not a man,, but I don't want to trick anyone into believing that I am actually female. I have no idea what it means to be female, no experience of being female. So how could I possibly say that I want to be something that I have no experience of being? (Apologies for using the word "something")

For me personally, it's all about fashion. I just prefer women's fashions to men. In that respect, I'm nothing more than a man who likes to wear women's clothes, wear make up, hairstyles etc

RIpples. So why the trans ? Is it just easier to say you're trans rather than a man who likes women's fashions? (I'm thinking Izzard here, who recently switched from liking women's clothes to trans).

ageingrunner

I know your question was directed towards ripples, but as a trans person I who grew up in a household where I can dress in any way I wanted and play with whatever I wanted, I still grew up to be trans so I don't think society being more accepting would have changed the fact I'm trans. Although, as an ftm trans person I can see that men are less able to dress in traditionally feminine clothing so there may be differences there.

I think I'm coming from the same place as ripples in many ways, I am biologically female but present as male as my experience with being trans is that my brain is expecting me to have male secondary sexual characteristics and it is just so jarring to see female ones. It is a shock for me every time I look at myself, I certainly don't feel like a man, I just feel like me, I haven't got a bloody clue what a man feels like - and I suspect it is different for every single one.

"What I don't understand is why beyondreasonably would say "one word: Iran" in the context of this thread"
Ripples, I was only answering the previous post when I brought up Iran, not the whole thread. Not understanding why this could be related to homophobia sounds disingenuous to me.

htdef and ripples

Whilst you both seem 'genuine trans' (for want of a better word, sorry), what is your take on transwomen insisting they are women and wanting access to women only spaces?

Would love to see these many accounts.

Feel free to google the subject.

Ripples
There is no reason you shouldn't feel to wear traditionally feminine clothing. Many women reject such clothing as is their right and why shouldn't it be the same for men?

Thanks for posting and talking here. You are courageous. And re the clothes, come over to Style and Beauty, it's fab

Feel free to google the subject

Flora, I have just googled the following:

"parents more comfortable with their child being transgender than homosexual"

And google has returned the following:

www.google.co.uk/search?q=parents+more+comfortable+with+their+child+being+transgender+than+homosexual&rlz=1C1GGGE_en-gbGB440GB455&oq=parents+more+comfortable+with+their+child+being+transgender+than+homosexual&aqs=chrome..69i57.12536j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It is not very helpful in addressing the very point that you have made. The answers may be in there somewhere, but instead of me crawling through numerous links in the hope of finding what you are referring to...

...And especially as you are clearly aware of these "many accounts", would you please link (at least some of) them to me and save me the time?

Datun

You ask "why the trans"

I did say earlier in my posts in this thread that the word "trans" doesn't really hold much resonance with me.

"I was only answering the previous post when I brought up Iran, not the whole thread. Not understanding why this could be related to homophobia sounds disingenuous to me."

We do understand why it would be the case in Iran, where a gay relationship would be your death sentence.

We don't quite get why you think that is applicable to the UK, where there simply isn't that sort of persecution. And being trans is arguably far more stigmatising than being gay, especially in the larger cities.