General Trans Discussion Thread

[IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat]

I seem to be hitting #PeakTrans on a daily basis now and thought it would be useful to have another general thread to discuss/post/share

If you haven't seen Magdalen Berns' recent blog post it's really worth a look

Where has the insistence on neutral pronouns come from? I wasn't aware that the TRAs were even pushing for this. Doesn't it contradict their 'I am a woman' viewpoint?

Judging by the comments under the articles, this is making the ideology look ridiculously precious - not something I would have thought the TRAs wanted.

I think the neutral pronouns are the preferred form of address for gender fluid or queer people .... ????

I wonder why we have pronouns for 'his' and 'hers'?

We don't have pronouns to differentiate between other characteristics.

If someone does identify as neither 'male' or 'female', should they be called 'him' or 'her?

(even though I'm not entirely sure how you can tell how someone identifies and what that is supposed to mean in RL)

I can't imagine it will take longer than 10-15 years, long enough for today's trans teenagers to wake up to the fact that they have sterilized themselves and undergone body mods for reasons that have nothing to do with being "born in the wrong body". Transmen, in particular, seem to be realising their mistake in droves at the moment. Guide on Raging Stars recruited detransitioners to fill in her survey on Tumblr. She was only looking for participants over the course of a fortnight, and yet more than 200 young women signed up. And we are told that detransition "never happens". Yeah, right.

Then there's the crime angle. If the UK goes for self-declaration for transwomen in showers, hospital, shelters and changing rooms there is bound to be a surge in assaults as various fetishists and predators take advantage. Whether that will make an impact is dubious. Women being attacked hasn't been a huge priority in the past. If kids are victimized, which they inevitably will be, that will change things. It wouldn't take many attacks on young girls in showers for people to sit up and take notice.

The right wing tend to express their concern in terms of my wife, my daughter, but they share my own concerns about the safety of women and girls, albeit from a different perspective.

I don't have an issue with people playing with gender. Dress how you like. It's the insistence that transgender males can change sex and that they should have access to women only spaces that I reject.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/dec/14/non-gendered-pronouns-trans-people-he-she-ze

More bollocks.

Actually it would be really handy to have a gender neutral way of saying things, to avoid the awkwardness of he/she. Most languages have this, e.g. in French you can say "on" instead of "il" or "elle".

But that's got nothing to do with TA craziness and preferred pronouns.

Yes, the only gender neutral words we have are "it", and that's not particularly polite especially when talking about a person, or "one", which is too formal for most interactions.

I know some gender neutral person use 'they'.

But that feels strange if the person is with you or near you and you are talking about them.

"in French you can say "on" instead of "il" or "elle"."

No. On replaces nous (we) which is already genderless, not il/elle.

Where's Sam?

She's over there.
He's over there
They're over there...

But when Sam is near you and you are not sure if they're male or female..

He said..
She said...
Ze said?

Jane Fae is a transwoman who regularly writes articles disregarding women's feelings and needs, I don't like the attempts to erase gender here.

No. On replaces nous (we) which is already genderless, not il/elle

Well actually "on" is third person singular (like he/she), not first person plural (like we). It can be used to replace 'we' or 'you' and even 'they', depending on context, but also he or she.

Jane Fae is a transwoman who regularly writes articles disregarding women's feelings and needs, I don't like the attempts to erase gender here

Agree. Am not defending the article as a whole, just saying that there is a feminist argument for a gender neutral pronoun. The English default of 'he' excludes women and s/he gets very awkward in long sentences where you keep having to use his/her. We often get round it by using 'they' or 'you' but this doesn't work in all contexts.

True, it would be useful. Can't see "ze" catching on though.. makes me think of Allo Allo or something!

Yes, 'ze' is ridiculous. The sensible thing, which already happens a lot in informal speech, would be to accept 'they' as a gender neutral singular. In informal speech, "Somebody I know told me they thought Mumsnet is great" sounds more natural than the correct "Somebody I know told me she thought Mumsnet is great." And we have already accepted the change in usage of "you" from a plural to a multi-purpose singular or plural (abandoning 'thou'), so I don't see why we can't do the same for 'they'.

Wow, I don't often post on this board, but... did you see the new National Geographic's alternative cover on Gender Revolution?
www.self.com/story/national-geographic-transgender-cover

There is a bunch of people lined up, labelled, from left to right of the picture:

Intersex non binary
Transgender female
Transgender female [again!]
Bi-gender
Transgender male
Androgynous
Male

Spot the missing category, everyone....!

I simply cannot believe this.

This

quadrant.org.au/magazine/2016/12/gender-dysphoria-child-surgical-abuse/

Is a long, but very informative and referenced read regarding the transing of children.

MarytheCanary I was at that, but then we women don't seem to matter very much.

MaryTheCanary that is astonishing! So no need to mention women at all in this discussion about "gender revolution" as they call it?!

So no need to mention women at all in this discussion about "gender revolution" as they call it?!

Comments on Twitter seem to largely be that actually women are featured as MtT are women

Help! WTF is "bi gender"?

I can't work out how to link it but The Pool have posted an article by Juno Dawson on the back of the Nat geographic article and childline stuff, there are some good gender critical comments on the fb post which could do with a few spartacuses (spartaci?)

Comments on Twitter seem to largely be that actually women are featured as MtT are women

Whether you believe that or not, it misses the point. According to National Geographic, 'male' is still a category - it is only 'female' that is surplus to requirements.

On another point, I've seen a fair backlash on Twitter about that gender revolution bollocks which is heartening.

PS I know you're not defending the Twitter viewpoint, It'sAll - my previous post was aimed at the idiots who are

Help! WTF is "bi gender"?

"Bigender is a gender identity which can be literally translated as 'two genders' or 'double gender'. Bigender people experience exactly two gender identities, either simultaneously or varying between the two. These two gender identities could be male and female, but could also include non-binary identities."