General Trans Discussion Thread

[IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat]

I seem to be hitting #PeakTrans on a daily basis now and thought it would be useful to have another general thread to discuss/post/share

If you haven't seen Magdalen Berns' recent blog post it's really worth a look

This was posted on the other thread by ItsAll but I think it's worth reposting here.

www.feministcurrent.com/2016/10/26/lobby-groups-like-mermaids-dictate-policy-discourse-around-gender-identity-kids-lose/

"In short, the government is taking its cues from a lobby group that apparently keep lists of gender critical women, striking them from participating in an ostensibly public forum."

Thanks for posting that link, ibelieve.

I've posted on trans threads before about my local authority's new relationships and sex policy. I was alarmed to see it referenced Mermaids as a source of support for professionals. I think an email with that article attached will be my next communication with the author of the policy.

There's a new documentary on iPlayer called Transgender Love if anyone is interested. Not sure whether I want to watch it or not to be honest, probably will as an academic exercise...

Annie - the link you posted is from LifeNews, an extremely right-wing, anti-choice Catholic website. I'm sorry if I'm coming across as the self-proclaimed thread police here, but a) sources matter and b) can we not give those fuckers the traffic? I found the same story on Snopes which also includes an interesting tidbit on Transadvocate's attempts at damage control.

uglyswan thanks for the heads-up, as I didn't know that.

(Fuckers to the left of us, fuckers to the right.... argh.)

So beautifully phrased, Annie!

Good article

www.nationalobserver.com/2016/10/25/opinion/opinion-bill-c-16-flawed-ways-most-canadians-have-not-considered

Update on legal challenge to the "bathroom laws" in US schools

Also interesting as the case is being brought by a transman, given the majority of TRA are transwomen

Clarification points:

1. LGBT events don't view 'drag' as mocking trans people. A few trans people have that opinion. I'm distinctly not one of them. The general public often confuses the two (we aren't the the same!)

2. People who do drag can be straight (I know some), bisexual or even female (there are female drag queens, as well as drag kings). They also quite often use female facilities such as bathrooms.

3. There isn't a new 'trend' for trans women to be non-op. It's a personal choice depending on how dysphoric you find your own personal genitalia. The waiting list for lower surgery for trans women in this country is growing at the moment quite dramatically and is a particular issue within the trans community.

The bathroom concept is simple - look male, use the gents. Look female, use the ladies. Just show respect to the other occupants. You have cubicles anyway. Personally I just prefer the idea of closed unisex cubicles which are starting to gain traction. Makes the whole thing irrelevant.

If you want to determine which bathroom to use based on genitalia who is doing the checking? Also please enjoy sharing a bathroom with Buck Angel and plenty of other heavily masculine trans guys.

The bathroom concept is simple - look male, use the gents. Look female, use the ladies.

Wrong. Men haven't been excluded from women's spaces due to the way they look. It's because they're men.

I was nodding to your post til you wrote this

Also please enjoy sharing a bathroom with Buck Angel and plenty of other heavily masculine trans guys.

You don't get it at all do you?
I think most women just don't want to lose the right to challenge a creepy looking/behaving male (whether or not he's wearing a dress) in the loo/changing room whatever. In placed where the law has changed, women have found themselves accused of hate crime for doing this.
Some men are voyeurs. Some get turned on by the sound of women using the toilet. Some like to indecently expose themselves "by accident" to women. This happens all the time. I can't support changes to legislation that allow these perverts greater access to women's spaces, even if it does make trans peoples lives easier.
I doubt that buck angel is going to film under the door of the cubicle next to him, or flash his genitals to the women in the gym changing room.
Jesus. On one thread we have a load of guff about how women should protect themselves from rape be avoiding being vulnerable around men and on another we get told males aren't a risk and won't exploit laws to abuse women. Can't you see the inconsistencies here?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/drag-queens-banned-from-performing-at-free-pride-glasgow-event-over-fears-acts-will-offend-trans-10405214.html

It was Glasgow pride! - I believe the ban was reversed. Drag is often offensive to women, but it was only listened to once men complained it seems and then the social justice warriors leapt into action.

I have to agree with Felas here - it's not how people look, it's which sex they are. We trust people to go into the correct toilet and don't want to check their genitals, but because it's an honour system, that means that women still have the right to eject men if they are acting inappropriately.

Can I say, I (and many women) don't find FTT as intimidating as MTT - they often have different reason, they're generally smaller (ie. female sized), and very importantly, they lack a penis to rape me with, as well as being much, MUCH more likely to have transitioned for social reasons rather than sexual.

@ChocChocPorridge

Yes, there was outrage by a few SJW types. And the ban was overturned (proving my point, somewhat). Some trans women find drag offensive. Just like some women do, ironically.

You do realise that trans men can get lower surgery as well, giving them a penis? And that some trans women equally don't have one?

My question would be who exactly is going to inspect the contents of everyone's knickers to find out what they have before letting them into the correct bathroom?

I think most women just don't want to lose the right to challenge a creepy looking/behaving male (whether or not he's wearing a dress) in the loo/changing room whatever

You don't lose this right. You should never lose this right. This is exactly why I said show respect.

If someone isn't behaving appropriately in any kind of space they should be capable of being called out (and frankly thrown out). Irrespective of what they are wearing or what gender they are or claim to be.

I'm all for protecting individuals, don't ever mistake that. And I don't want weirdos watching or listening to me pee any more than you do. (I'm sure there is some weird sub-reddit dedicated to watching trans women pee somewhere and I'm sure as hell not going looking or it).

No! No dicks in female spaces. That's it

And there does not have to be knicker inspectors. If you have a dick, simply don't come into the FEMALE toilet/changing room. Not complicated really

No! No dicks in female spaces. That's it

So post op trans women are fine but non op trans women aren't fine?

How do you tell them apart exactly?!?

Maybe that one doesn't have a dick (anymore)?

Post op or pre op makes no difference. Men should be excluded. And suggesting there is a difficulty in proving sex doesn't mean the concept is just abandoned. If it's just 'a place to pee' why can't you use the already existing accessible loos? Don't bother answering, it's because you might get targeted. By men.

You don't lose this right. You should never lose this right. This is exactly why I said show respect.

This is how it's always worked. But it doesn't now.

I posted this interview on another thread, but realise not everyone on this is posting on that one too

If anyone has used a public restroom in the U.S. then they will now that they are not private at all. Last week I was waiting outside the cubicle while my DD age 4 was inside and I could clearly see in through the huge gap down the side of the door. It's a voyeurs dream tbh. I would not feel comfortable sharing facilities like this with males, no matter how they claim to identify. The idea that some predatory men won't take advantage is laughable and shows a complete lack of concern for women

If someone isn't behaving appropriately in any kind of space they should be capable of being called out (and frankly thrown out). Irrespective of what they are wearing or what gender they are or claim to be.

Silly old us, forgetting that we could just "call out" men who are behaving inappropriately our presence. Because historically, it never put us in physical danger to do so. We've never been accused of lying or exaggerating about these things and lucky for us, almost all men fess up straight away and promise to behave themselves from here on in. Never deny or gaslight. Never accuse us of making it up, being crazy or vexatiously accuse us of provoking or victimising them. Nope, never.

Which is lucky really or else women would really be in the shitter if men could all of a sudden "call out" our "call out" as a hate crime. Phew, disaster averted.

It really is shocking when a man wants to be a woman but has no idea at ALL.

If I hear one more time that of COURSE if someone behaves badly in your space then you just kick them out...

I practically give myself an eye-roll injury every-time I hear it.

As a women who has 'called out' creepy behaviour, had it dismissed and minimised, to then have the behaviour escalate and turn into an assault (which was also dismissed and minimised), this shit really boils my piss.