General Trans Discussion Thread

[IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat]

I seem to be hitting #PeakTrans on a daily basis now and thought it would be useful to have another general thread to discuss/post/share

If you haven't seen Magdalen Berns' recent blog post it's really worth a look

For the "born in the wrong body" theory to work you need two things:

1. innate sex based brain differences which are not subject to environmental factors
2. evidence that trans people have the brains of the opposite sex

There is zero evidence for this. To the best of my knowledge there was one study which showed slight differences in areas of white matter between men and women and that trans women had white matter structures in this area which were somewhere between men and women. This study was very small and its results have not been replicated.

"One of the main problems is the trans-activists and those with a dubious motive have hijacked the entire ideology."

I know it is tempting to focus on TA's, but the real problem is the ideology of queer theory itself, which is comprised of postmodernism, sexual libertarianism and individualism. It is from this that concept of "transgenderism" originates.

Queer theory says the categories of women and men are not fixed, that anyone can identify as either. It approves of sexual fetishes and does not think they should be criticised. It respects the rights of the individual above all else. All of this of course advantages men and disadvantages women. It is not really that TA's have hijacked the ideology, it is more accurate to say the entire ideology is itself built on mens rights.

I know on the surface it seems polite/respectful to refer to "genuine trans" or use opposite sex pronouns etc. However, doing this makes it much harder to claim women are a stable category, as it implies that some males can become women. Ultimately it adds legitimacy to this dangerous ideology. To fight it I believe women have to be firm that no male can ever become a woman, which means rejecting the ideology entirely.

"there is therefore equally lacking research pointing to the assertion that there may be no genuine trans"

This sounds similar to creationists who say "no one has proved deities do not exist, so religion is equally valid a theory as evolution".

There is copious historical evidence that some homosexual people thought it better to argue they were born in the wrong body, in order to gain public acceptance. There is also hard evidence that this eventually led to hormone "treatments", and "sex change" surgeries being given to "cure" them.

Equally there is also plenty of historical evidence of men becoming sexually excited by wearing "women's" clothing .

Additionally there is numerous evidence that women historically have tried to escape the restrictions imposed on them, by pretending to be men.

By analysing the social and political climate we can come to conclusions about what motives are likely behind an action. Yes we could claim these people were all really stuck in the wrong body, but we have to decide which of these explanations seem most plausible.

"it isn't worth meeting extreme (trans activitists) with extreme (ban all penises from toilets etc)."

It is not "extreme" for women to want to retain sex segregated spaces. The only ones who argue that it is are those pushing a mens rights ideology.

"boys/men being treated differently by society alone is going to lead to brains being wired up differently."

The brain is plastic it does not matter how ones brain is "wired up" at one given moment in time. The brain can change if someone changes their behaviour.

For example the hippocampus in London taxi drivers changes after learning "the knowledge", and the cerebellum and cerebral cortex in ballet dancers changes after learning to pirouette. Various areas in the brain also change in sufferers of OCD, simple phobias, social phobia, PTSD and depression after completing behavioural and talking therapies.

You're quite right, of course, Witching.

I've been trying to work out why the campaign for transwomen to be legally able to access female spaces makes me uncomfortable. I've certainly shared public toilets with transwomen before - not very often, just once or twice. It didn't bother me but I think that was down to how the transwoman conducted herself - quite unobtrusive and mindful of others.

However, I do not want it to be legal for anyone who 'says they are a woman' to have access. For me, it seems to be linked to the ability to police my own safe space. Like many others, I've come across men in the past who have made me feel very uncomfortable for no apparent reason. On the surface they were friendly but something felt 'off' and I'd avoid being alone with them or just cut them off. I really don't feel comfortable with a narrative that tells young girls/women that they should welcome anyone into their space. Worse, that they don't have the right to feel scared or uncomfortable with a male body in toilets or changing rooms. I would have really struggled if one guy I knew in particular had said they were a woman and began to access female changing rooms - I would not have felt safe at all and as a young student would not have had the confidence to challenge it.

I don't think I'm articulating this particularly well but I really don't like this airy dismissal of the feelings of some women and girls on this matter. Some men are a danger to us and it's important to be able to listen to those instincts instead of being made to feel like a bigot. Self-identification seems like a carte-blanche to allowing predatory males access to safe female spaces.

Boldly

Self-identification seems like a carte-blanche to allowing predatory males access to safe female spaces.

That's precisely what it is. If the criteria is removed from the legal identification of trans ( as is currently being pushed by Maria Miller), then any man, any day, anywhere, however temporarily, can identify as a woman and walk in. And you can't challenge it.

The crazy thing is that women learn while still very young to be aware of men around them, to be wary of men when in a particularly vulnerable position, whether walking late at night or getting changed at the gym. Having had it drilled into us that men pose a potential risk to us we are now suddenly being told that it's bigoted to recognize that the man in a dress is a man, or express our concerns about the destruction of woman only spaces. The trans agenda is directly in opposition to women's rights and interests.

"Having had it drilled into us that men pose a potential risk to us we are now suddenly being told that it's bigoted to recognize that the man in a dress is a man, or express our concerns about the destruction of woman only spaces."

Spot on.

But... but... you are missing the simple solution to it all:

Wear A Blindfold!

Was randomly reading this article about butch women's experiences being made to feel uncomfortable in the ladies toilets. www.alternet.org/human-rights/butch-women-discriminated-against-womens-bathrooms

Except the first "experience" is not from a butch woman, but a trans woman who by their own admission, still presents as male. So a biological male, who looks stereotypically masculine, being questioned when trying to enter a female toilet. And this being labelled as "discrimination against butch lesbians?" The world has gone mad

I can't begin to imagine how we'd go about teaching girls about safety and bodily integrity / boundaries. Girls will grow up with all sorts of mixed and confused messages.

I haven't started a new thread for this, because it's only a possibility at this point (official nominations come out next year), but the Academy is considering a "gender flexible" actor for both best actor and best actress...

Terrific

Great. Even the MN frowny face is now presenting as something else.

Why can't the gender fluid actor just go in the actor shortlist? It's not even as if he is a proper full-time transgender actor. If I recall, Jared Leto only went on the male shortlists for his Dallas Buyers Club role. Surely there's already precedent? It's hard enough for women to get decent roles and recognition for them. Enough already!

(In the time it took to write my 2nd post, it fixed itself.)

Two bites at the effectively the same cherry?

How is that fair?

It's not fair, it's brave / progressive /

Sarah vine has an article in the DM today criticising the transfer agenda, including forcing kids to use the word cis.

Is it just me that's seeing a bit of an uptick in critical articles lately?

When class full of children were asked to describe their gender identity, one girl said well on balance I think I'm just normal. She was put in detention for not saying cis.

Oxford University demands use of 'ZE pronoun'

Highest seat of learning, huh?

What fresh Hell is this?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4020872/Stop-calling-boys-girls-Advisers-paid-200k-help-train-teachers-claim-using-sex-specific-classrooms-unfair-transgenders.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4021894/Oxford-University-says-students-use-gender-neutral-ze-place-he.html

At lease the Daily mail reports the nonsense of it all. Unlike the Guardian. Fuck, I always considered myself a liberal leftie. This shit is making me question the left agenda. Not good

The left has never had much attention to spare for women, Ibelieve. There's a saying that the right think each woman should be a man's property while the left think women should belong to all of them.

Look at how the Guardian reported the New Year attacks in Cologne. Their main concern was racial profiling of the offenders. Heaven forbid that anyone mention cultural factors. The victims of the attacks hardly warranted a mention. Women always go to the back of the queue where the left is concerned.

It's heartening to see articles in the mainstream media that question trans orthodoxy. It doesn't much bother me whether it's left or right wing. I may disagree with them on other issues, but I'm not overly fussed about ideological purity.

I suspect it's the issue of trans kids that will send the whole toxic edifice tumbling. Roll on the day.

It needs to happen sooner rather than later before too many are hurt.