Ched Evans verdict

[FreshwaterSelkie]

to continue the discussion as the previous thread closed.

And yy Batteries to being sceptical about the blind drunk/blind drunk scenario. Every time I've been blind drunk I've fallen asleep. All the men I've been with in that state managed to keep their dick to themselves.

Oh and Enzouk she didn't accuse him. Try reading the fucking thread or the facts. If men don't want to be accused of rape, don't have sex with barely conscious women and then tell the police what you did.

My colleague Janice Booth, who is also a poet and writer, feminist, disability and trade union activist, wrote this poem last year inspired by CE. It describes exactly what rape is.

She didn't accuse him of anything.

I'm. It sure how many times this needs to be said. Maybe if we explained it using the medium of interpretive dance it would sink in?

*not sure

Stupid fat fingers!

Had a conversation about this with DH tonight - at his firm he's the one who negotiates advertising deals with other firms, including local football clubs. In his words 'I'll be fucked or fired if I'm going to do a deal with a club he's at next season'. (Evans was at one point in talks with a local club who had to back out of any contract due to bad publicity).
The depressing part came when he told me that he was the only one in the office who still thinks Evans is disgusting. Even the women were glad he had been cleared because he's a decent footballer.
Weird how being good at sport means you can't morally be a total shit isn't it?

That's a great poem and a barnstorming performance heathen. Thank you for sharing.

enzouk the woman would have to go to a police station, have an internal examination, be interviewed, and then convince the police that there was a case before they take the case to the cps who then decide if the case goes to court. If there is not enough evidence the case will not go to court. Once it is established that there is a case, her character will be dragged through the mud by the prosecution.

It's not really fun.

The reason this case got to court was because CE basically condemned himself with his own testimony. He behaved in an incredibly predatory way. The dance around the legal technicality of whether his claimed belief in consent was genuine or "reasonable" notwithstanding.

She runs the risk of being named, stalked, her sexual history (and other parts of her life) being raked over. She'll be accused of lying, possibly have death threats aimed at her. Family and 'friends' will shun her and practically the whole world will believe him.

But yeah when a woman goes to the police about rape it's the man's life that's ruined .

All about the menz.

and later accuses him of rape for whatever reason.

For the love of God, how many times does it have to be repeated before it sinks in. SHE DID NOT ACCUSE HIM OF RAPE. The police came to the conclusion themselves based on what CM and CE told them.

After all ...doesn't a man also have the right to safely have sex without risk that his life might be ruined by being falsely accused ?

In the same way in which a woman has the right to not be penetrated without consent. There's a simple way in which men can avoid such a scenario. Don't have sex with someone unless you are completely sure that they are fully consenting, and if at any time they say to stop, you stop. It's really not a difficult concept. Many decent men the world over manage it.

I really wish people would find out the facts regarding this case before inventing imaginary scenarios about a women falsely accusing a man of rape in order to make some sort of weird unrelated point about this case. It's very tiresome.

Weird how being good at sport means you can't morally be a total shit isn't it?

Yes. He sneaks into a hotel room and cheats on his Mrs with a woman of questionable ability to consent, who didn't even know who he was at the point of penetration, yet she is the slag/slut/tart in all this? And at the same time people are hailing him as some sort of hero? It's bloody bizarre. At best he is a lowlife scumbag cheat.

Hero my fucking arse.

I'm glad I stepped away from this last night.

When I posted about male posters perhaps trying to be thoughtful, I think I might not have been clear (I was very angry last night). What I was getting at was a sense I'd had on the last thread from some posters that we should all just try to be analytical about this, and try not to "get ourselves worked up" about this. It wound me up because too fucking right I'm worked up about it - and so we should be. I don't think it's too much to ask that on a feminist board, men should listen (read) first and foremost. I'd been thinking a lot this week about the relative weight given to men's and women's version of events, particularly around the sudden "realisation" of conservative men that Trump's attitude to women is atrocious, for example. Their outrage measured against what women have been saying for years...so it was coming from that space.

I also had a feeling there would be a deluge of GFs, and lo, it came to pass...not surprising really.

heathen4hire thank you for the poem link.
I feel despair about this verdict.

Well, even the Daily Mail and the Sun are questioning the verdict. www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-37663020

So pleased that the sun has come out in the way it has. Times are changing although this verdict is discouraging. Ten years sho, this prosecution could very well not have been brought. There has been a massive change in the attitude and approach of the prosecutors in this country. They are consciously standing up to rape myths now and that will alter public attitudes over time.

The Sun and Mail headlines are encouraging.

Wow, I'm really surprised and impressed by the sun.

Oh I love the sun. Never thought I'd say that. Even down to how they've put about his "compo" in the headline
fresh I totally agree. My DH told me I needed to be more objective last night
I don't think men "get" how scary this is. If you're drunk, a man can rape you and it terrifies me. Less on my own behalf (I'm too old now hopefully) but for my DD.

Don't be too impressed by the Sun. Right next to the 'treating women like dirt' banner is a half naked woman and "See all of Orla" headline.

Face. Palm.

Right, so nothing changed then after I went to bed last night. Apparently some people still think that men keeping their penis to themselves when drunk/partner is drunk is a ridiculous and impossible task, and that women will report rape on a whim.

Surprise, surprise, rape myths that men can't control themselves, and women are all lying bitches, despite personal, and statistical evidence to the contrary.

Honestly, I hear so often that feminists don't do themselves any favours by being rude, or talking the way they do, yet blokes come on here and talk like that and we're not supposed to be disgusted by it? Not supposed to lose a little more respect for men as a class when they talk like that?

I can't stop thinking about this case and the woman at the heart of it.

Even if we allow for one moment the disgusting decision to bring her past sexual behaviour into the trial, surely the question was not 'does this woman enjoy sex at the end of a night out', the question should have been 'has this woman ever knowingly, consciously and voluntarily participated in a threesome'? It's a completely different situation.

Oh, I hate that one too, choc. If only feminists were nicer, men would listen, would take us seriously. It doesn't work like that. There isn't any amount of "nice" that changes a damn thing. If men want to listen, they'll listen. It's not up to women to chase round endlessly trying to find a kind way to talk about rape that doesn't hurt men's feelings, or make men take a good long look at why it's more important that they're able to put their penises where they want than it is for women to be safe from rape.

spartacus I still don't think that's good enough because this was barely a threesome (CM went out almost immediately). Also just because someone consents to a threesome once that doesn't mean they consented to this one.
I really think previous sexual behavigour shouldn't be allowed at all. Can't see any reason for it.

You're right, cloak. I'm glad at least that several newspapers have highlighted the disgusting decision and questioned it.

This verdict is disgusting. I know it's been said here but what has been included in the courtroom this time round (the irrelevant assertions about the other sex she may or may not have had, and where there is a £££££ reward out from the Ched Evans camp fishing for exactly such assertions) and what's been left out (the only other guy in the room's evidence) has been shocking. I can only imagine the individual damage done to the poor woman involved and it creates a dreadful legal precedent. I feel powerless as to what to do to protest and so worried for women who have been raped and who get into the legal system. It's awful.