Ched Evans verdict

[FreshwaterSelkie]

to continue the discussion as the previous thread closed.

You are ignorant of the facts of the case, the legal process involved, the statistics on false rape accusations (the Home Office, that well known bastion of radical feminism, puts the false accusation rape at about 3%, broadly in line with other crimes) and have shown no understanding of the psychological aftermath of rape. Instead you're spouting one rape myth after another. Yes, you are a troll - because of your complete ignorance of facts, and your adherence to vicious rape myths.

Bloody hell, I wish MN had a "hide poster" button.

I still believe the accused deserves the chance to a fair trial where all evidence is heard

All the evidence in this case wasn't heard. And some things were given in evidence which were irrelevant.

I still believe the accused deserves the chance to a fair trial

Yes, I think everyone would agree that everybody has a right to a fair trial, but I'm not sure how that is relevant. Nobody has argued for an unfair trial.

Gh05 are you the one who signed up to tell us all not to libel CE, or the one who started the now deleted thread? I forget...

Gh, no, the woman doesn't have to press charges. The CPS went ahead with this case. In fact it's ironic that you express concern about a woman maybe accusing you....mate of mine was accused of assault by the CPS after the victim failed to identify him in a line up. CPS went ahead with prosecuting. Mate just happened to be in the vicinity and be the right height with brown hair or whatever. Luckily the judge threw it out but it was a long horrible situation.

tbh the fact that you are commenting here without knowing the facts of the case means - I'm out. You asked for intelligent conversation, there's plenty here, but it appears you are the one who has not troubled to take account of any facts.

Thing is you don't seem that concerned about getting it wrong the other way, gh. Which is a far more common outcome I assure you when you look at how many reported rapes end in a conviction of someone for rape.

6%.

Cross post - no she didn't. Read the bloody transcript of the first court case, or the first of Evans' applications for appeal. She didn't say at any point "I was raped". She told the police she had no recollections of the night in question. The entire case was built on his testimony to the police.

Fuck me, you really are the thickest troll I've encountered in a long time.

At least have the most basic facts to hand, gh05, if you're going to try to argue about it.

Chocchocporridge what are you on about? A man has power because he xan choose not to have sex? You don't seem to be able to understand. We are talking about the ability of a woman to falsely accuse after a sexual act has taken place. Are you going to suggest that this doesn't happen?

HOW OFTEN DO YOU THINK THIS HAPPENS? This isn't like accusing someone of nicking your watch - you'll go for invasive medical testing, you'll be grilled by the police, then you'll go to court and have your entire sexual history raked through. Exactly how many women do you think are prepared to do that?

Of COURSE you have the power. If this is a concern, then don't have sex. Don't put your penis in anyone. Super easy, entirely within your control.

You seem not to be able to understand, I'm seriously worried about any women you encounter, because you apparently have trouble figuring out if a woman is consenting, and think that they'll turn around and accuse you of rape the next morning on a whim! You must be a terrible judge of women! Honestly, wait until they are sober, and straight out ask if they'll have sex. Whilst having sex, check again that they are fine with it at various points. If at any point they say no, immediately stop.

Generally, this kind of advice isn't necessary, but since you seem to be finding the whole concept so hard, I think you need to go back to basics.

All evidence was not heard.

Lorelei76...thats a cop out. I've made a few very clear and important points. I can't possinly reply to every pent up response but what I can do is state that it is not really fair that a man can have his life ruined by a woman who decides to falsely accuse him and her identity can remain hidden even if it were the most ridiculous false rape accusation in the world.

And there is a lot of nonsense coming back in this thread. At some point the woman would have had to say 'i believe i have been raped' (or words to that effect) for the CPS to do anything with it.

Poor the menz! Will no-one think about the rapists menz?!

You know of course that you're more likely to be raped than be falsely accused of rape don't you Gh?

Of course, since so many people apparently think like you, should you be raped, I'm sure that you'll believe that it's your vindictive accusation ruining that poor man's life, not a rapist ruining yours once someone from the courts explains how your having sex previously makes it totally fine for other people to have sex with you.

Do not worry too much. We're alright.

but what I can do is state that it is not really fair that a man can have his life ruined by a woman who decides to falsely accuse him and her identity can remain hidden even if it were the most ridiculous false rape accusation in the world.

You can state that as long as you know it has absolutely no relevance to the Ched Evans case that we are discussing, and as long as you acknowledge that false rape accusations are "rare, rarer than previously thought, but serious when they occur" as per Keir Starmer's 17 month study on the subject when he was at the CPS.

HTH.

Gh - "At some point the woman would have had to say 'i believe i have been raped' (or words to that effect) for the CPS to do anything with it."

no. Do your homework.

As for copout - you failed to mention the one thing that would have made me more inclined to continue the discussion - the option to make the accused anonymous as well as the victim.

As for the nonsense you think is coming at you on this thread, I have been calm, rational, logical and talked about points of law. I haven't directed any "nonsense" at you. But if I'm going to have a conversation about the law, I think there needs to be a bar set, and while I'm not a lawyer, the bar is set pretty low if you haven't acquainted yourself with any information at all.

If you couldn't remember having sex with someone and woke up and went to report a lost item but then the police told you that someone you didn't know about had freely confessed that they had sex with you when you were drunk and vulnerable, you might want that dealt with too, gh.

And there is a lot of nonsense coming back in this thread. At some point the woman would have had to say 'i believe i have been raped' (or words to that effect) for the CPS to do anything with it.

Wrong. The CPS can, and do, press charges without the victim's consent. If they have the evidence (which they had from CE's own mouth in this case), then they can proceed with the case. It's actually becoming quite common place for DV offences to be prosecuted in court without the victim's testimony.

The victim in this case reported a stolen handbag to the police. They investigated and linked CE to the hotel room. They interviewed him and he told them that he went into a room and had sex with a woman without speaking to her. The victim did not know that she had had sex with CE. She was unable to consent.

Here's a nice little info graphic for Gh...
(Along with the stat that as a man you are more likely to be raped than be falsely accused, already mentioned)

And venus, me too and it goes without saying that I believe you.

Thanks beyond, likewise. It's shit

A sad and depressing day to be the mother of daughters.

I absolutely stand by the young woman whose life has probably been devastated by this ordeal. I hope she is surrounded by strong and supportive friends, family and professionals. I hope she knows she has done nothing wrong.

So much needs to be done to challenge the rape myths that pervade society.

I want to do something but feel so helpless.

Perhaps gh might have a little think now. He's just ignorant, he can change.

Gh05
CE admitted he did not seek consent from the complainant in this case.
He did break into a dark room and stick his penis into an intoxicated woman he had never spoken to.
He did allow the activities to be viewed and filmed without her knowledge and consent.
His girlfriend did contact and attempt to influence a key witness.
The new witnesses did know the 'magic words' required by the defence as they had been reported prior to their statements being given.
They were offered money to testify.
They did both change their statements several times

She didn't accuse him, the police charged him based on his own testimony.

Gh05

Gh - "At some point the woman would have had to say 'i believe i have been raped' (or words to that effect) for the CPS to do anything with it."

Was going to ignore but i thought i would add my "no she doesnt at least try and have a basic grasp of the case" to the others

Much as I think what he did was vile and reprehensible, I find it hard to say the jury made the wrong decision. The judge said the jury shd ask themselves 'are you sure the defendant did not reasonably believe the complainant was consenting'. From what I've read they couldn't have been sure. I think it's likely he did believe she was consenting. I have a ds and I'm uncomfortable with the idea a young man could have his life ruined and live with the label of rapist on the basis of an incident like this.