Yes, it is another trans thread - attempted murderer Lauren Jeska

[PippaFawcett]

Absolutely no mention AT ALL in the BBC coverage that celebrated 'female' fell runner Lauren Jeska's reason for attempting to murder an athletic official is because she was discovered to be transgender and could have lost her titles, because obviously the women competing against her were at an unfair disadvantage.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-37439875

I was baffled at Jeska's motivation until I read the DM's version: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801806/Former-fell-running-champion-Lauren-Jeska-admits-attempted-murder-former-rugby-player-Ralph-Knibbs.html#comments

Usual disclaimer that I have no issue with transgender people but this complete denial of the facts of biology does no-one any favours. And I presume this crime will go down as being perpetrated by a woman?

Miranda yardley would be the first to admit that she's male, which ironically makes it easier for me to accept her as a woman, because she's not aggressively insisting that people accept that or be raped. I don't know her or anything, only online.

It's interesting that I felt a sense of relief at this "admit that she's male".... Bit I am still a bit troubled by referring to him as 'she'. It seems to be a bit too much to ask of strangers to play along with that kind of charade.

How often do we thank each other for our veiws or opinions?
Yeah exactly this.
We can be welcoming but sometimes the response to trans posters is almost fawning. I think it's because we all know it's not easy and want to be sympathetic but it is interesting because female posters don't get that and men certainly don't even the very thoughtful ones. We just all chat. Which is as it should be.

"to admit that she's male"

I find the mental gymnastics required to even say such a sentence extremely brainhurty.

Miranda certainly sounds like a feminist is what I was saying. Can a male be a feminist? I don't know. A feminist ally certainly.

I think the transitioning legally is the area that causes problems, it just blurs the distinction between biological sex and gender when they are totally different things.

I don't think transgender and feminism are natural enemies. I think in many ways transgender people have the same aims as feminism - to break down the gender myth. The problem was that until fairly recently breaking gender taboos wasn't accepted and the only way to live without persecution was to be diagnosed with a mental illness and have a gender reassignment. And the legacy of that is what causes all the problems we have today.

I think this man - yes he calls himself a man while wearing a dress and make up- is a wonderful example of how to rock gender non conformity without being ashamed and hiding your past: twitter.com/streetvoiceuk?lang=en whilst standing up for the feminist cause (I don't know if that makes him a feminist or feminist ally).

Bit I am still a bit troubled by referring to him as 'she' me to, I use they.

We can be welcoming but sometimes the response to trans posters is almost fawning yes it is. I switch off when that starts. If a transwomen wants to come along and say, "fair enough, I'm male, it's my issue and I can see that this is causing women a problem, what can I do" I'll engage, but they always always want to put their point of view, try to get us on side. It's always about them, just sometimes more subtly than others.

He seems pretty cool.

I think in many ways transgender people have the same aims as feminism - to break down the gender myth.

I don't think so..transgender people seem to enforce 'gender' more than try to break it down. If transwomen said 'look, I like dresses and feminine things, I am pushing the boundaries of what it means to be male' then yes, I would agree. But the narrative seems to be...I like feminine things therefor I am a woman.

Personally, I don't use preferred pronouns because of any fawning.

Firstly there are people lurking on here who are new to the ideology and would see it as deliberate provocation if you don't. And I don't want to lose their attention.

Secondly, I don't want to get deleted.

But thirdly, and most importantly, I want these people to stay around. I want to see what they say held up to scrutiny.

If they don't dig a hole, fine. If they do, then there's another person who will see it for the charade it is.

Miranda Yardley does indeed seem to get it. But she is the ONLY one.

I am of the opinion that men cannot really be true feminists, because they don't truly understand. But as far as it goes, she does.

And, strangely enough, I don't feel weird when I refer to her as she, despite my utter conviction that she is a he. .

I don't think so..transgender people seem to enforce 'gender' more than try to break it down.
Yy
It seems to be some rare people on the fringes like that street voice guy. But I reckon he'd see himself as a non-gender conforming man rather than a transgendered man. The very word 'transgender' almost suggests that gender is a real thing.

But the narrative seems to be...I like feminine things therefor I am a woman.

I agree it certainly is but I think the reason behind that is because it wasn't accepted (and still isn't fully accepted) for men to like feminine things but you can 'become' a woman and that makes it ok.

But there are more and more gender non conforming people who don't necessarily want to transition to anything. I really think (hope!) that one day transitioning will be horribly old fashioned and people will just live their lives how they wish without worrying about gender.

I am aware that I sound like an incredibly naive teenager. I'm trying to work it all out in my head to stop myself hating people.

I really think (hope!) that one day transitioning will be horribly old fashioned and people will just live their lives how they wish without worrying about gender.
Here''s hoping - but I reckon there'll be a lot of mutilated teens before we get to that point

Apart from Miranda & her partner, pretty much no transwoman posting here has really added much to what we're talking about. Especially so as none of them have even tried to answer the key questions we have. And most of them just attempt a "gotcha" or two.

Distressing though it may be to not feel you fit in as a male in this society, that doesn't make one a woman even if mimicking one relieves the stress. I feel the disconnect even more when these people would have massive feminist support to break the gender constraints from the male pov. Far from being a brave option to transition, I think it's the opposite,although I understand why. Not really buying the narrative, though.

Great posts on here; Beachcomber, you are always my touchstone on feminist stuff. You got time for a book?

I feel the disconnect even more when these people would have massive feminist support to break the gender constraints from the male pov. Far from being a brave option to transition, I think it's the opposite

This is so true. If they wanted to join us in smashing gender stereotypes it would be something I could really get behind. Instead whether they do it quietly or are activists, they are all still upholding and reinforcing the means of our oppression. And not one of them has tried to explain what 'feeling like a woman' means.

Frankly, I don't think any of them are actually interested in being a woman. They only want to not be a man. Those with gender dysphoria.

The rest are misogynistic fetishists.

Frankly, I don't think any of them are actually interested in being a woman.

Well no, the actual woman stuff like periods and fluctuating hormones menopause isn't much fun. But males don't have to do that part of being a 'woman'.

Datun - Frankly, I don't think any of them are actually interested in being a woman. They only want to not be a man. Those with gender dysphoria.

The rest are misogynistic fetishists.

I agree. And what any of that has to do with us women, I have no idea. Apart from another bloody reason for maintaining our boundaries. I am so fucked off that I wasn't engaged in 2003 when this really kicked off. Ironically, I was thick in an abusive relationship which then led me to feminism.

what any of that has to do with us women, I have no idea. Apart from another bloody reason for maintaining our boundaries

Totally.
I must say I find it extremely heartening to read so many posters who aren't cowed into playing along with that crap. It makes me optimistic about the future.

I try to get around using pronouns but if necessary I'll use "they". I have called MY "she" out of courtesy and respect for Miranda's excellent work but to be honest it felt odd and jarring to me.

How often do we thank each other for our veiws or opinions?

On the support threads people often thank each other for sharing their experiences. Especially those whose experiences mean it is particularly brave for them to speak up.

Looks like after missing out the transgender aspect from their previous reporting, the Guardian have added an update which clears some things up:

www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/17/jailed-transgender-fell-runner-thought-uk-athletics-was-trying-to-kill-her

"In 2000 she had gone to Brighton to undergo a gonadectomy – essentially, castration – which should, according to UKA’s own guidelines on transgender athletes, allow her to compete in domestic competitions. Many of her rivals in the sport had no idea she was born a boy called Michael. She wanted to keep it that way, firmly believing that any biological advantage disappeared with her testes."

"When the Guardian visited her parents on Friday, a prison chaplain at HMP Foston Hall, a woman’s jail in Derbyshire, called them to say their daughter wanted them to know she was OK."

What things did that clear up for you berry? Seemed a very one sided article to me....

Wow. In a women's prison!

How could anyone think Jeska was female? I know female athletes are often well built and muscular but to me he's instantly identifiable as a man. Makes me sick to think of the vulnerable women in that prison.