Transwoman using women's loos at work

[CharlieSierra]

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours.

If a trans person has been raped why shouldn't they access a rape centre?

It doesn't/wouldn't bother me

A. Woman

If there is unisex toilets then why use the ladies? It's a purpose made move to be in a women only space, regardless of women actually care or not.

It's always assumed women are the passive sex so they won't mind and if they do - who cares. Now if a trans woman minds then folk better sit up and take notice because ultimately mens, regardless if they now identify as a woman, POV, feelings, wants, still trump the needs, wishes of actual real woman.

It's messed up!

The only positive I'm hoping that can come out of all this is that I'm that I'm hoping trans women will soon start kicking up a fuss about equal pay for women(or will that then start the back peddling?) - but then it probably will be for only trans women (that was tongue in cheek by the way!)

If a trans person has been raped why shouldn't they access a rape centre?

Because female crisis centers are for females. They provide a safe space away from men and the support provided is tailored to help women who have suffered piv rape.
To put a man in the mix would cause untold distress but i suppose that comes secondary to what men want

neon well why not abolish single sex rape centres then and just have unisex rape centres? Let's just get rid of all women only safe spaces ...

It's almost as if we are slowly going back in time.

In total agreement with the women on this thread who point out that transwomen should be able to use male toilets without fear of being mocked or worse.

That is the logical, tolerant, inclusive, liberal and humane answer to this issue.

I don't see what could possibly pose a problem.

Sorry it makes you sad my cat, I don't like it when people feel sad.

My daughter still has the right to privacy when she washed her bloody trousers in the sink. Sharing public space with men is not the same as sharing a family bathroom, the two are incomparable.

I have fought for LGB and women's rights most of my life, I will keep fighting so that females can keep their right to privacy.

Surely any examination or discussion with a woman who has been raped would take place in an individual room? Is it really going to be dangerous to see a trans person in the waiting area? As soon as the woman steps into the street she will see men too.

But Beach tackling the men, making them accountable, calling them names and forcing them to accept transwonen in their toilets is a no no. We are not allowed to discuss male violence instead we must leave the men to it allow them to do as they please and force weak women to accept these changes regardless of the dangers.

Surely any examination or discussion with a woman who has been raped would take place in an individual room? Is it really going to be dangerous to see a trans person in the waiting area? As soon as the woman steps into the street she will see men too.

I cannot even answer this very ignorant question.

Yes I do think the answer is a redesign of facilities into the future because people should be able to identify as whatever they like and should not then find obstacles to their inclusion every time they want a wee. However in the meantime the only person with a male body ,regardless of how they identify, I am happy to be changing naked beside is my husband and the transition from 'traditional' gym changing room design to unisex stalls is going to need some careful navigation.

It's also about who does the talking. Rape crisis centres have been sued for not hiring MTT as rape counsellors for women.

neon I think your purposely missing the point. Have you ever been with some one who has been sexually assaulted? Yes the women rape victim may see men in the street walking past - but that's very different than sat there waiting for your turn surrounded by men which is incredibly triggering and will put women off going to these places.

poison are you kidding? Wtf??!

If a trans person has been raped why shouldn't they access a rape centre?

There was a trans poster on here the other week. They came in to 'educate us". Rape, according to them, is 'the result of 2 stupid people taking drink or drugs and isn't all that important' or words to that effect.

There are also transactivists who say that they have the right to have seX with lesbians if they so wish and any lesbians who says no is transphobic.

It's a sad world we live in and not because we want to protect female only spaces from men.

Lumpy, my thing is that someone trans in a women's toilet identifies with women, not men, so I don't see them as men. If your daughter was washing her bloody trousers in a sink and someone trans came in I don't think they'd have a problem with it?

In response to some of the other posts about women needing a safe space to not be harassed or raped, if a man wanted to rape or assault a woman in a public toilet, I think they'd go into the toilet and do it regardless. Are we saying that all trans people are rapists or sexual predators? That's really offensive. I say this as someone who's experienced sexual violence, and I don't think all men are rapists.

I've never really been comfortable using public loos because of people hearing me wee (which I know is ridiculous) but it wouldn't matter to me if the person in the next one was male or female. They'd still be hearing me wee, and that's something I have to stop being embarrased about.

I'm just trying to imagine being trans, and I would at the least want to be able to wee in the ladies and not be given a hard time over it.

Nina this is the whole point. They are women! Why should they not be hired as a woman to counsel raped and battered women? Toilets = everything.

To those people who think women should accept that any man who says he's a woman should use the women's loos, what is it you think might happen to an MTT using the men's loos?

This is so sad and so bitter. Honestly, get a grip. If it bothers you that much, pee at Starbucks. HR will support the needs of the other person before they will indulge this tripe, and the law is on her side, not yours.

Lumpy, my thing is that someone trans in a women's toilet identifies with women, not men, so I don't see them as men. If your daughter was washing her bloody trousers in a sink and someone trans came in I don't think they'd have a problem with it

Why would you centre the feelings of the trans person over those of the young girl/woman? I think Lumpy thinks her DD would have a problem with it.

I have been raped. Being alone with men scares me. When a male cleaner calls out anyone in there and I realise I'm in the loos on my own I call back and every time my voice breaks in fear. I don't use the loos if I've stayed late at work because of the risk a man could come in.

How rare am I and people like me compared to transwomen? And how come my fear is irrational whereas their fear of embarrassment using the men's is delicate enough to make allowances for?

Don't I matter too?

On the plus side, reading today's news - the infantry now has it's first woman fighting with the men on the frontline. As more women join, maybe this will help break down ideas and stereotypes and we will be taken more seriously. I wonder if she will pee with the men or be given her own loo.

. If your daughter was washing her bloody trousers in a sink and someone trans came in I don't think they'd have a problem with it?

See that right there is an example to the backward thinking on this. What if the actual female washing her pants in the female toilets mind. It's scary that people almost have a default to prioritise how the male feels first...

I find it difficult to believe that any of you would be happy for you and your daughters to share naked communal changing space with someone with a fully functioning penis

The main thing I would find tricky here is my dd (5) would ask a load of questions about the transwomans body. I've not discussed trans with her yet, she's only five.

I've no issue with her seeing a penis. She's seen her dad naked quite a few times. She might have seen her grandads peeing when they were looking after her.
Her dad takes her in the gents when he's out with her.
I have no issues with her seeing a penis but I can imagine a tricky conversation in a changing room.

I clearly go to different gyms and showers than the rest of you though. Can't remember the last time I saw a communal changing room with no private changing cubicles available.

HR will support the needs of the other person before they will indulge this tripe, and the law is on her side, not yours

Sadly after a century of women's rights activism, HR will indeed still centre the wants of the man over the needs of women. And yes, the law is on their side. Now that's sad.