Transwoman using women's loos at work

[CharlieSierra]

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours.

Wow, so glad my kids have finished their education.

Without being goady, do you still think you will feel uncomfortable when they are post op?

A big difference now is that a lot of FTM transsexuals don't get to that point. A man doesn't even need to have traditionally feminized his appearance in any way. If he says he's female, he's female.

That makes no sense if the definition woman also includes humans with a very different physiology.

What is the group called with whom I share the same biology?

No Lozza I haven't.

My kids did also sorts of 'opposite stereotype' things - including boys wearing dresses to school - and my daughter the other way, very much so. If I'd told them they couldn't i have little doubt they would have said they wanted to be a boy, or a girl, or whichever sex was allowed to do that thing.

That's about it though.

How do you know Robe is a woman? You don't know what a woman is, so how can you know if anyone is a woman or not?

Pinky - I don't agree with you that we campaign for what affects us necessarily. I'm a white, British born professional who campaign and fund raises for refugees, homeless people and apparently speak up for anybody else I think needs support.

Except women, Nat. Except women.

They'll just have to close their eyes while I walk up the stairs, then pretend I flew in through the window.

that's the best thing I've read in a while. TY

Thank you, mycat 😊

Can anyone help me with what I am?

I was born a female with a uterus and eggs and XX chromosome.

I have no gender identity at all.
I do not identify as a woman
I do not identify as a man
I do not identify as non-binary

If gender apparently trumps sex, what the chuff am I? And please provide an explanation rather than just saying "you're a woman". Because I want to know what "being a woman" actually means if it's not biology?

Natwebb any chance you'd just answer a question?

Do you believe gender is innate and overrides sex? If so, why?

You seem to want the best for transpeople (everyone here does do, I must add!) But the problem is, giving transwomen access to womens spaces also gives any old tosser access too. Do you think that is fair, safe, unproblematic? And if not, what would you think is a better solution?

Winchester - I fund raise for our local women's shelter and raise awareness of domestic violence against women. Is that ok?

What's the point of supporting a women's shelter if you allow men in there?

7days - as I have said I have no idea what the solution is but I know the answer isn't blanket punishment because of a minority.

'Punishment'

it's not punishment to use a gender neutral toilet instead of the women's

it's using a different toilet

Winchester - Men aren't allowed in there. The shelter is for women with children. As far as I know trans women can't give birth yet so you can relax.

Are you happy with your birth assigned sex and gender Pinky? If so I'd go with it. No need to cause yourself extra angst.

pinky you are a woman. An adult female human.
It makes no difference how you 'identify' or what gender stereotypes you follow.
Gender doesn't trump sex, how can it ? Your physical state is real.
It's simple, basic, science.

Nat I'm unsure why you think those that are conversing with you have little to no contact with those that identify as transgender. The majority have had and continue to do so, sometimes on a daily basis..

Coming on to this thread and trying to lecture "us" just shows us your prejudices.

It may not be punishment but it's certainly discrimination.

No, but men have children. So a TW turning up with children would be turned away?

Are transwomen allowed in the women's shelter?

Winchester just admitted she's had no contact with trans people.

Kua: I haven't - hands up to that. I've just read a lot of first person accounts/twitter feed/guardian stuff etc since Mumsnet first alerted me.

I don't know. I don't work there, I raise funds for them. I could ask if it would make you happy?