Transwoman using women's loos at work

[CharlieSierra]

I've posted a bit about this over the past few days on the MN response to Spartacus thread in site stuff, but someone suggested I start a new thread about it here.

Earlier this week I was surprised to encounter an apparently male person in the women's loos at work. I understand from a colleague that they have just started the transitioning process, and it appears from all the research I have done that there is no way to avoid them invading our space. It would be discriminatory to prevent them.
We also have showers, presumably the same applies. I plan to take it up with HR, since none of the women in the building were told this could happen, but I haven't managed to speak to anyone about it yet.
I feel angry, powerless, silenced. It's obvious using the next cubicle that they use the toilet as a man would. We will have to adapt our behaviour, hide any discomfort so as not to make them feel uncomfortable. There are unisex accessible loos on every floor, but no, they want to be in ours.

Perhaps we should have Spartacus part II where we sign in and say "I'm cuntish"

I'd sign up for that.

But to be honest. I'd use the word to describe other posters and not those who bring fact and honesty to the discussion.

Oh Christ. We haven't resorted to meme, have we? 😁

Yes nat we can see that. You are very very upset by the idea that self declared women might be challenged on using women only spaces. The multiple examples of women and girls being adversely affected are an acceptable price to you.

But I'm cuntish.

Natwebb79 I was here earlier, had to go out. WW and a few others took it I was having a strop and fucked off. It was actually because I have a life away from MN & went out for the day. I'm glad I did because nothing's changed, they've spent the whole day being what they probably refer to as 'goady fuckers' and dismissing those of us who disagree with them as misogynistic, stupid etc etc

I agree with everything you say, I'm leaving this thread now though because it's pointless, they demand we answer every single point they have but ignore many of ours. You can't debate like that it's pointless. But thanks from me for trying.

Kua - fucking ask them! 😁

Cheers mycat. This forum is something else, isn't it? 😁

This is not representative of the Trans community as a whole. But these things happen. An open door policy for men to women's protected spaces is not a progressive view.

transgender-harms-women.tumblr.com/tagged/1/chrono?og=1

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0016885

I think earlier you said 'them' so i don't know why you're 'inverted comma using' as if i'm 'othering' 'them'

no i haven't spoken to every trans person in the world you will be unsurprised to hear

I've read a lot of trans stuff on the internet, by trans people, i've listened to interviews with trans children and adults, there are even programmes for kids

it's all about stereotypes but you say this renders you aghast

so come on, we still don't have a definition of woman/man except it's not stereotypes because that's just such a ghastly ignorant thing to suggest

but you're our only hope Nat - we look around us and that's what we see - you have come like Moses to tell it's not about that at all, it's about something else entirely

so you know

WHAT

Yes it is something else. It's one of the few places where women don't need to pretend something that is ridiculous and harmful.

So DNA has SFA to do with it then?! Great. I identify as Zorro and I DEMAND the right to carry and use my sword at all times

I identify as rich. I should start a crowdfunding campaing to get the money I need for my transition. One million should suffice. Oh, wait, then I'd not be a special snowflakey trans-rich, I'd be a boring, regular rich person. That analogy doesn't work.

Well, then, I identify as high elevation windowfolk. From now on, everyone is required to pretend that I am invisible, and that I can fly.
Since we already pretend that males can get pregnant, that shouldn't be too hard, and the fact that I cannot actually fly shouldn't get much in the way of other people's ability to pretend that. They'll just have to close their eyes while I walk up the stairs, then pretend I flew in through the window.

how is one supposed to ask them?

I'm asking you Nat as you previously stated that you mentored these students.

Perhaps you should step away from them as you yourself don't know why and are possibly causing harm.

My issue is that for a man who is a man who wishes to harass women all he has to do to access safe spaces where women are more vulnerable ie communal changing areas is claim to be trans. He isn't trans he just claims to be and his claim is all it currently takes, to challenge him would be called bigoted. I am not talking about genuine trans people but people who claim to be trans for other reasons. I just think there needs to be more to it than just saying I'm going to be a woman today.

Will one of you stroppers, before you leave, please tell me what word I should use to describe myself, please? I'm one of them humans that produces eggs and bears young, all being well.

I need to know what you have decided, because you are one of the group that have changed the meaning of women, which is what I used previously.

Ta

I'm not upset Hermione. I'm fascinated that so many people can turn a thread about a trans woman using a female loo with lockable toilets into a full on attack about how trans women are deluded men and askimg questions about their lives that quite frankly are none of their fucking business. Certainly an experience. 😊

Yes it is something else. It's one of the few places where women don't need to pretend something that is ridiculous and harmful.

This forum is one of the last sane spaces on the internet. I am so grateful I found it!

Nat "Do you honestly think they would go through all of that shit if they didn't need to? "

Are we talking about self identifiers because if we are, then what shit have they gone through? Telling people they are trans?

Oh I see we're back to thinking it's ok to let men into women's toilets.

However the day hasn't been entirely wasted. I haven't binge-Mumsnetted before and it was immensely satisfying.

I don't mentor them because of their trans ststus. I I'm a teacher and mentor them academically. I do my job and nurture the students in my care perfectly well, thanks for your concern. Bloody hell, unclench a little! 😁

WinchesterWoman

how is one supposed to ask them?

I was going to ask if you've ever actually met a trans person.

First - you're a woman. Hope that helps. You can sleep now. Nobody will steal your womanhood if they decide to transition as a woman. It's all safe, promise.

society needs to find a solution

Thing is, groups tend to fight for what affects them. I am a British woman, I mainly fight and campaign for things that will affect me or my DD, and also women in other parts of the world. If I strongly believe in something, for example, that should change for gay men, I would fight for that too. However I ^do not* have to fight for absolutely everybody else's rights on their behalf. I wouldn't expect black men to lead a campaign for services for white women. If TW and TM want access to spaces or new safe spaces, they need to lead the way because they know best what suits them. It is not up to women to fight everyone's corner.

Ironically, to say "you go off and do the hard work dears, we'all sit here and wait for you to come back with a solution and peg it as our achievement" is an inherently male thing to do. Wonder why that is...

Winchester - if you meet one have a chat. They might tell you to mind your own fucking business but you know, worth a shot.

natwebb this is the first time I wish MN was like FB and had a like button. Echo everything you've said. Hope to see you on another thread some time, enjoy your weekend and I'm really glad the trans women & men you work with have you in their life, they are lucky. Take care!

Lorelei - individuals will have been individual shit to transition.